Sunday, December 04, 2005

Aish video cancelled in Lakewood

Mr. "Anonymous" commenting in the previous Lakewood posting wants to know:

I heard that the scheduled showing of the Aish video "Inspired" in Lakewood was cancelled. Any idea of why?

Are they banning videos?
posted by Yeshiva Orthodoxy
at 2:11 PM

43 Comments:

Anonymous Anonymous said...

The frummies are dead against Aish altogether, and in this video you hear people who were once secular speaking about what inspired them to become frum. The videos are supposed to be extraordinary, but who knows? What if someone utters something that might cause someone to realize that there is another world out there. This is very dangerous!

Another theory: The "Inspired" videos are two; one of and for women, the other of men. The kanoim are generally anti anything that smells (to them) of feminism, or of (God forbid!) careerism in women. This video features articulate, intelligent, thoughful women; women like these threaten the view of the know-nothings, who look askance (to put it mildly) at any sign of independent thinking in women. Women are supposed to bbe content with their traditional roles; women like these are seen as a threat, because of the fear that their daughters might recognize in them the possibility of a life somewhat different than what they perceive to be the ideal. They then resort to their usual weapon: censorship under the guise of frumkeit.

Of course, I don't *know* that these are the reasons the showing was cancelled, but this is what I'd suspect.

3:09 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

You're entirely off base - the women's video has been shown previously in Lakewood and there has been a series of Aish & Discovery events and speakers over the past several years in Lakewood.

This event was different insomuch as they were specifically targeting kollel yungerleit by offering them free admission (with re-resgistration). The yeshiva certainly doesn't have an issue with kolel couples attending these events, but has always discouraged events during the z'man specifically directed toward kollel yungerleit which weren't yeshiva sponsored.

(a Lakewood yungerman wh took the time to inquire rather than posting baseless speculation)

5:10 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

**The yeshiva certainly doesn't have an issue with kolel couples attending these events, but has always discouraged events during the z'man specifically directed toward kollel yungerleit which weren't yeshiva sponsored.**

SO ACCORDING TO THIS THEORY I CAN EXPECT TO SEE THE AISH VIDEO DURING A LONG MOTZEI SHABBOS OR MID WINTER BREAK WHERE IT WONT AFFECT THE YESHIVA SEDARIM?
IM EAGELY WATING FOR YOUR IN DEPTH HONEST ANSWER WHO DID HIS DEEP DOWN RESEARCH

5:23 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

It was speculation, but it was not baseless. And I didn't say the Roshei Yeshiva have an issue; I said the frummies (i.e. kanoim) do, and that is a fact. Unfortunately, they too often intimidate the Roshei Yeshiva and Mashgiach.

7:03 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Of course you could see it during beiin hazmanim or the like. I'll do you one better -- its been shown in Lakewod previously. You're making an issue where there is none. When it was shown and advertised to the general community, everything went off as planned.

(Lakewood yungerman)

7:54 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

yungerman:

So why was it cancelled? B/c it will be mevatel people? I find it hard to believe.

8:29 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Find it as difficult or as easy to believe as you would like - I spoke to a member of the hanhala about the cancellation and that is the explanation which I received. It shtimmed with the info I got from the organizaers, so I consider it a non-issue. The yeshiva is simply not comfortable with events of that nature being advertised and targeted directly to kollel yungerleit as it implies yeshiva support of the event. The yeshiva is/was not opposed to the event (as evidenced by its previous showing as well as the ongoing series of Ais/Discovery lectures, some of which have featured divrei brocha by the Mashgiach and/or Roshei Yeshiva), but neither were they involved in its organization.

(a Lakewood yungerman)

12:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

MR YUNGERMAN.
IF YOU ARE CORRECT THAT THE YSHIVA DOES NOT WANT TO GIVE THIER APPROVAL TO THE KOLLEL TO SEE IT THEN LET THEM KLAP ON THE BIMA AND SAY SO OR RUN AN ANNOUNCEMENT ON INFO LINE LIKE THEY DO EVERYTHING ELSE. THERE ARE PLENTY OF PEOPLE WHO CAN YES VERY MUCH BENEFIT FROM THIS VIDEO. KOLLEL OR BALL HABOS. WHAT A SHAME ON THE YESHIVE IF YOU ARE CORRECT.
LET EVERYONE DECIDE ON THIER OWN . THIS IS NOT KINDERGARTEN.

12:56 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

People in Lakewood have already seen the video Mr. ALL-CAPS, and presumably they will have the opportunity to see it again. The yeshiva technically didn't cancel anything - they contacted the organizedrs, expressed their disapproval, and the organizaers chose to cancel that particular showing. I imagine the organizaer's decision had as much to do with the fact they if the yungerleit and they wives didn't attend (had their been the "clop on the bima" that you suggest (itself a ridiculous idea given the size of the institution we're dealing with, but I imagine you were aware of that when you suggested it)), the event would have been essentially empty since it they were the primary audience targeted in the advertising.

Don't create issue where there are none. Klal Yisrael has enough problems -- channel that vitriol and yuse it for something constructive.

8:54 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"The yeshiva is simply not comfortable with events of that nature being advertised and targeted directly to kollel yungerleit as it implies yeshiva support of the event."

That's different than what you said before, that it's a question of bitul Torah during the zman.

But either way, why should the yeshiva have and exercise veto power over a private organization showing an unobjectionable film. It's none of their business! If a yungerman is not disciplined enough to come to seder, that's his problem, or theirs. It's not the problem of Aish or anyone else.

10:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"IF YOU ARE CORRECT THAT THE YSHIVA DOES NOT WANT TO GIVE THIER APPROVAL TO THE KOLLEL TO SEE IT THEN LET THEM KLAP ON THE BIMA AND SAY SO"

Exactly. They have become far too comfortable with arm-twisting; it has become their standard response to anything and everything that annoys them.

10:03 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

And let me repeat: I am sure that the Roshei Yeshiva on their own would have done nothing about this film; they probably didn't even know about it.

But there is a kvutza of laidikgayers, of idle people, of kanoim, who have nothing better to do than stir up trouble, who certainly made it into an issue, and informed the hanhalah about it. The problem is that these no-goodniks have the ear of the Roshei Yeshiva and the Mashgiach, who are afraid to oppose "frumkeit," and who dance to their tune all the time.

10:07 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

It's quite easy to sit and kleir. Pick up the telephone and inquire. I know this doesn't help grind your axe, but you'll find that there was no arm-twisting whatsoever. A single telphone call was made expressing concern over a non yeshiva event being marketed specifically to kollel yungerleit and their wives. The organizers recognized the issue and immediately and chose to cancel the event. Even your "klop the bima" eitza would have resulted in a cancellation since the event was targeted at kollel families and without their attendance there would have been no event.

10:51 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

The "kannoim" canard is obvious bunk. There have been numerous Aish/Discovery events in Lakewood over the past 18 months, several featuring divrei brocha by the Moshgiach/Roshei Yeshiva. The yeshiva is certainly aware of the video (and had no issue with it having been shown in Lakewood previously). The only difference between this showing and others was the marketing. Occam's razor might come in handy here...

10:57 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"The "kannoim" canard is obvious bunk."

Are you saying the Roshei Yeshiva thought of this themselves? Of course not! It was obviously brought to their attention by some tumuler. Who was that person? And what are his motivations? I don't think I'll find that out by picking up the phone.

11:12 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Mr. Yungerman.
I think that before you give unsubstantiated reasons as to why the rosh yeshvas cancelled the aish video you should talk to the source directly.
DID YOU SPEAK TO THE ROSH YESHIVA DIRECTLY OR TO AISH DIRECTLY?
Well i DID speak to the aish office this morning and had a lengthy conversation with them
212-921-9090
You are totally off base with this kollel targeting reason. or bitul zman or what ever you want to call it. as i sad earlier they dont want them showing videos in lakewood PERIOD... not even bain hazmznim
Get some back bone and call and find out the ** real truth**

11:55 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Funny, but it wasn't even Aish that cancelled the showing, but the sponsoring local mosad, YTT. My wife works in the office. She says they received a fair bit of grief from Aish when they called to cancel the showing, but that the chain of the call was BMG->YTT->Aish. She's doesn't know if they plan on bringing it at a different time, but that the yeshiva didn't "prohibit" them from doing so.

3:04 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

**Anonymous said...
Funny, but it wasn't even Aish that cancelled the showing, but the sponsoring local mosad, YTT. My wife works in the office. She says they received a fair bit of grief from Aish when they called to cancel the showing, but that the chain of the call was BMG->YTT->Aish. She's doesn't know if they plan on bringing it at a different time, but that the yeshiva didn't "prohibit" them from doing so.**

Listen here mr. yungerman . telling me what your wife heard from her work place and using her "hear say" just doesnt cut it . Lets hear it from the horses mouth. why dont you call aish directly like i did and see if the story SHTIMS as you put it. If you say it as is than why did i get a whole new angle of the story from 2 different people at the aish office? Besides i never said that aish is the one that cancelled the show . just the opposite.they told me the yeshiva does not want them showing any videos in lakewood at any time. PERIOD.. call 212-921-9090 and for yourself that i am not making this up nor is it hearsay.

11:48 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

the news here is that someone in the hanhala of the yeshiva took the intiative to ask aish not to cancel the event.
that aish listened is not news .
reb noach alway's respected the yeshiva.
it s nice to learn that his talmidim also do.
it is a new concept that balei tshuva go around talking about there past.
rabii kammenetsky in his new revised edition brings from the alter of slabodka,[both are not known for being frummies,as a matter of fact his first book was ...]
a ball teshuva should stay' home and have charata on his ma'asim.
not giving speeches.

12:10 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Um, hello. My wife made the call to Aish (though she didn't take the call from the yeshiva). I think she's aware of what was said.

12:36 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Anonymous said...
Um, hello. My wife made the call to Aish (though she didn't take the call from the yeshiva). I THINK she's aware of what was said.
-------------------------
If you take the time to call aish directly, instead of relying of what some other person heard in the yeshiva office, you will KNOW what was said and not THINK what was said . Stop hocking and spreading false rumors about why the aish video was cancelled!! we all know the true reson of the hanhallah. nothing to do with targeting the kollel or some other assenine reason you mentioned. 212-921-9090

9:49 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

doesn't lakewood show the tish b'av event every year? i know they get the rabbi frand and rabbi resiman feeds and i'm pretty sure they've had simulcasts of various events. there must be more to it than the whole ban video thing.

9:50 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

HE SAYS HIS WIFE MADE THE CALL U IDIOT. ENOUGH ALREADY!

9:51 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

**a ball teshuva should stay' home and have charata on his ma'asim.
not giving speeches.**

There is absolutely nothing wrong with a ball teshuva taking about his past as long as its done in a constructive way.
Even the torah talks about avraham before he became religious.
The gemorah has loads of stories about Tanaim and Amoraim about thier shady past . So does the Eyn yacov . Not sure where you have the right to pasken that Balley Teshuva should just sit home and have charata. Maybe part of their charata is talking about thier passed . Ever cross your mind?

10:15 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Just to keep identities straight, I'm the Original Anonymous of this thread. I took yungerman's advice and made inquiries to get to the bottom of this whole thing. Here's the way it went down:

There was a particular fellow who had once seen the video and knew that it contained a scene of Uri Zohar before he became frum in which there was a woman (don't know whether or not she was inappropriately dressed - some of these guys would take offense even if she was wearing a chador). This guy first went to YTT to have it cancelled and they told him to call Aish, as YTT had nothing to do with it, but was simply renting their hall to Aish. (YTT was *not* the sponsor, contrary to what one guy posted above.)

This nudnik (I don't think he's a full-time kanoi, so I won't post his name)went to the mashgiach, who, instead of simply telling him to get a life, agreed that this is a big, big problem, and went about getting it cancelled. However, it didn't "pas" that they should tell Aish the real reason for cancelling, b/c they'd come across like fools (evidently, the scene is not all that terrible), so they told them that they don't allow public showings of videos in Lakewood. Total bs, of course, but it did the trick.

The ironic thing is that Aish had actually edited out this scene already, so if the original nudnik would have contacted them, the whole thing could have been avoided.

Lessons:
a) The mashgiach displays once again that he has no backbone, but is simply a weak reed that bends before every breeze, and that he's ready to do the bidding of any and every part-time kanoi.

b) We have lots of people with serious issues here, and it's getting worse not better.

c) People shouldn't believe everything their wives pick up in the office, as they usually don't get the story quite straight.

d) "yungerman" shouldn't be so naive. The yeshiva tells Aish one thing, but that's not really what's going on.

e) I was right when I suspected foul play here.

My source is unimpeachable and knows the whole thing from the inside. Obviously, I'm not gonna tell who it is, but trust me, these are the facts.

10:37 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

a ball teshuva should stay' home and have charata on his ma'asim.
not giving speeches.**

this is jusy a qote from rabbi kamenetsky's new book,in the name of the alter of slabodka.[ both were not known for being frummies.
as a matter of fact his first book was produced a ban.]
BT speaakers start adding their own half baked ideas.
spend x amount of years trying to understand a blatt gemora w/o artscrool then ...you will realize why you shouldn't be speaking in this format.you won't even need an explanation.

5:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"spend x amount of years trying to understand a blatt gemora w/o artscrool then ...you will realize why you shouldn't be speaking in this format.you won't even need an explanation."

What baloney. I've spent far more than a few years that way, and I find I have much to learn from baalei teshuvah: from their mesiras nefesh, from their joy in yiddishkeit, and more.

Here's a quote that precedes the Alter: Eizehu chacham halomeid mikol adam. Baalei teshuvah have much to teach us.

The Original Anonymous.

6:19 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

To the original anonymous:
A GREAT BIG Yasher Koach for setting the record straight about the Aish Video.
I feel that being that you have pretty solid evidence both from the Lakewood side and Aish side , maybe it would be beneficial for you and for the others if you spoke to the appropriate people in Lakewood and give them the real truth .
For starters i would approach Reb malkiel and then maybe Reb Matisyahu. ETC.
My gut feeling is that Rabbi Gottlieb and his cronies, the one that was interviewed by the meda Re: *internet in the home* is very much behind lots of the latest kanoishe rules in Lakewood
Honestly i would take on this task myself but you seem to have much stronger evidence of the REAL truth and maybe just maybe we will see a change when these bully kanoim come out of the wood work next time. Just my 2 cents .
And to the fellow who called us idiots? Hopefully you learned your lesson , but then again you heard other wise from your wife who heard it from the yeshiva office. LOLOL.
Now to the fellow that has been knocking the Ballay Tshuva;
I guarentee you that if you were in his shoes while he was contemplating to be frum you would have never even considered it even for 1 micro second. So think before you talk. Actually in your case think TWICE before you talk.
Balay teshuva are on a much higher level all around whether you are comfortable with that fact or not , it is a fact.
I am sure rabbi kaminetsky would disagree with your statements about their learning cababilities etc. The only ballay teshuva that i personally have issues with are the ones who are Heavily Programed. Hamavin yovin.
enough for one evening

8:17 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

to:The Original Anonymous

What baloney. I've spent far more than a few years that way, and I find I have much to learn from baalei teshuvah: from their mesiras nefesh, from their joy in yiddishkeit, and more.

how come ?
what part of the system failed you?

12:58 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Tuesday, December 06, 2005



Beyond Teshuvah


In a recent cynical and bitter post, that I quickly deleted, I relayed the following true exchange:

Friend and long-time BT: Did you see the new Aish movie "Inspired" about the stories of ba'alei teshuvah (returnees to Orthodox observance and belief)?

Me: Does it talk about how they can't get married, get their kids into yeshivos and marry off their kids?

Friend and long-time BT: No, that's going to be in the sequel.
Before you protest, the above cynical comment of mine was an obvious exaggeration (and none of that happened to me either). Anyway, now there is a group blog by BTs to help them share their experiences, successes, and difficulties. (With rabbinic approval, no less)

Beyond Teshuvah

1:38 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"how come ?
what part of the system failed you?"

No part. But for someone born and bred to frumkeit, I take it for granted, and don't always recognize its beauty. Baalei teshuva help you do that; since they are experiencing it all for the first time, their sense of wonderment is undiminished; they're not jaded in any way.

The problem with people like you is that you actually think you have all the answers, and that no one out there has anything to teach you. More fool you.

Again: Eizehu chacham halomeid mikol adam.

Original Anonymous

9:30 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

to Original Anonymous

No part. But for someone born and bred to frumkeit, I take it for granted, and don't always recognize its beauty. Baalei teshuva help you do that; since they are experiencing it all for the first time, their sense of wonderment is undiminished; they're not jaded in any way.


if yoy live in lakewood why don'tyou drop in to "the yeshiva"

on a mondat and listen to "the mashgiach"?

just this past week he spoke about "yhiya bainecha kchdashim"
you can subscribe to a tape and get it mailed in to your home/office.
if your fishing ,fish in a lake .

3:08 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"if yoy live in lakewood why don'tyou drop in to "the yeshiva" on a mondat and listen to "the mashgiach"?"

To be perfectly honest, he's the last person I'd look to for inspiration. But even if I *would* appreciate his brand of maggidus, why should that exclude being inspired by baalei teshuvah? It's not a setirah.

OA

4:03 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

to oa
Anonymous said...
"if yoy live in lakewood why don'tyou drop in to "the yeshiva" on a monday and listen to "the mashgiach"?"

To be perfectly honest, he's the last person I'd look to for inspiration.

if this was your behavior in yeshiva,
it follows that today you have to find inspiration from BT'S.
listening and getting inspiration from BT'S is not the way to go .

6:25 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"if this was your behavior in yeshiva"

Actually, when I was in yeshiva, I did attend some of his shmuessen; they were okay, as far as shmuessen go; I've heard much better. I even remember R' Nosson's shmuessen; you can bet your bottom dollar that I didn't bother with those!

I don't deny that Rabbi Solomon is a half-decent speaker, and he usually has a nice vort to say (although not more than that). But I don't find him inspiring, for various reasons that I'm not going to get into here. Suffice to say that I'm one of many in Lakewood who hasn't drunk the Solomon kool-aid.

You evidently have, judging by your inane comments re. baalei teshuvah.

6:47 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"if this was your behavior in yeshiva"

I was thinking again about how silly your comment is. Your assumption seems to be that anyone who doesn't care for the mashgiach must be a bad guy. But that's a dumb idea! If you don't respect someone, there's not much point in coming to hear his shmuessen. And I don't respect the man! If he's your cup of tea, great; you have plenty of company. I prefer to be more discriminating.

7:12 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Anonymous said...
"if this was your behavior in yeshiva"

Actually; I've heard much better. I even remember R' Nosson's shmuessen; you can bet your bottom dollar that I didn't bother with those!

I don't find him inspiring, for various reasons that I'm not going to get into here. Suffice to say that I'm one of many in Lakewood who hasn't drunk the Solomon kool-aid.

were do you go to get inspired besides a BT disc job?
"kool aid" i understand to mean following blindly.
what does that have to do with a shmuess?
it sounds like a familliar argument.
the speakers were very inspiring.
they are known as dasn & aviram.
they alway's took on great causes.
if it meant knocking a kvad peh.
his name was moshe.



I prefer to be more discriminating.

7:12 PM

11:46 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"the speakers were very inspiring.
they are known as dasn & aviram.
they alway's took on great causes.
if it meant knocking a kvad peh.
his name was moshe."

I have no clue as to what are you talking about. Do you mean that Dasan and Aviram were as inspiring as Rabbi Solomon? Or do you mean that Rabbi Solomon is a k'vad peh like Moshe Rabbeinu? Or are you comparing all baalei teshuvah to Dasan and Aviram, or to Moshe? Or are you just nuts?

I think the latter.

Original Anonymous

11:54 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

1] Do you mean that Dasan and Aviram were as inspiring as Rabbi Solomon?
1a]i meant you.
you can bet your bottom dollar that I didn't bother with those!


2]do you mean that Rabbi Solomon is a k'vad peh like Moshe Rabbeinu?

2a]
R' Nosson's shmuessen; you can bet your bottom dollar that I didn't bother with those!

3]Or are you comparing all baalei teshuvah to Dasan and Aviram, or to Moshe?


3a]Suffice to say that I'm one of many in Lakewood who hasn't drunk the Solomon kool-aid.
4]Or are you just nuts?

4a]BT inspired

5]I think the latter.

5]think again

5:52 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I take it back. You're not nuts. Just dyslexic.

6:50 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Anonymous said...
I take it back. You're dyslexic



m'i yrros

11:59 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Interesting conversation. It seems to me that a decent balanced person who finds himself/herself unhappy and repressed in the yeshivish system, has a choice. Either attempt to leave; a difficult choice for people without the social and professional skills to easily integrate with other streams of Orthodoxy. Or to make peace with their situation, perhaps placating themselves by realizing that it is indeed a very loud minority who holds the yeshivish community hostage to intolerance and small-mindedness. The important thing is to realize that there is a choice, and happiness can certainly be achieved- perhaps with courage and sacrifice, but still possible.

10:35 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Interesting conversation. It seems to me that a decent balanced person who finds himself/herself unhappy and repressed in the yeshivish system, has a choice. Either attempt to leave; a difficult choice for people without the social and professional skills to easily integrate with other streams of Orthodoxy. Or to make peace with their situation, perhaps placating themselves by realizing that it is indeed a very loud minority who holds the yeshivish community hostage to intolerance and small-mindedness. The important thing is to realize that there is a choice, and happiness can certainly be achieved- perhaps with courage and sacrifice, but still possible.

10:36 PM  

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