Home, at last
Everyone is in an uproar (prior post) over the Lakewood Yeshiva's recent Chinese Auction brochure which conveys a message contrary to what a yiddishe home should value.
Their message was extravagant, showy - certainly not the message they preach daily.
The Yeshiva ia now admitting they erred, and seeks to make amends.
This is a golden opportunity.
They should send out another mailing, a letter taking an opposite stance, an entirely different message. One that explains what truly a yiddishe home is.
They should write about the inappropriateness of ostentatious homes that more and more (Lakewooders!) live in. They should talk about the flaunting of designer clothing, marble flooring, and all the other luxuries that are prevalent in our communities. They should vociferously speak out about the "keeping up with the Jonses" mentality plaguing our midst.
Then Lakewood Yeshiva would be reinforcing their values and at the same time be doing a great public service.
Their message was extravagant, showy - certainly not the message they preach daily.
The Yeshiva ia now admitting they erred, and seeks to make amends.
This is a golden opportunity.
They should send out another mailing, a letter taking an opposite stance, an entirely different message. One that explains what truly a yiddishe home is.
They should write about the inappropriateness of ostentatious homes that more and more (Lakewooders!) live in. They should talk about the flaunting of designer clothing, marble flooring, and all the other luxuries that are prevalent in our communities. They should vociferously speak out about the "keeping up with the Jonses" mentality plaguing our midst.
Then Lakewood Yeshiva would be reinforcing their values and at the same time be doing a great public service.
posted by Yeshiva Orthodoxy
at 7:00 PM
93 Comments:
Yes and no. Gotta be careful about those sweeping statements. Certainly keeping up with the Jones's isn't the best mentality, but if people can afford a nice home, I wouldn't begrudege them. Hashem never said we cna't have nice homes. Certainly getting nicer stuff beyond one's means to keep up with the neighbors is probably not the best thing to do, but let's fight the battles that really need to be fought. There are more important issues out there.
I think the lakewood keeping up with the jones's has become, who can be a bigger kanoi, who can have more yidden to call bad. How much can I mind my neighbors business, does he have internet, why did or didn't his kid get accepted or go the certain schools.
etc...
The issue here is hypocrisy, which the yeshiva has unfourtunatly shown with thier auction.
And this is what the yeshiva should make amends on.
Several years ago the yeshiva was auctioning off acomputer system with freee AOL and at that time they also retracted for the same hypocrtical reason . When will they learn?
Lay off the people with nice houses. It smacks of kinah. There's nothing wrong with fargining another person. Your tirades about fancy houses is typical Lakewood kanous, only directed at a new target.
'Lay off the people with nice houses.."
I am all for nice things,it's "showy' what I'm against.
The immodesty, and competitive nature of it I think is deplorable.
"..fargining another person."
I wish eveyone lots of money, and lots of sechel how to deal with it.
Keeping up with the Joneses is relatively easy. It is keeping up with the Goldbergs that is hard.
The issue at hand is not that there is anything wrong with nice homes perse. The issue is that the yeshiva perse should NOT be the one promoting this . When the yeshiva sends out a hypocrtical message like that it rubs many the wrong way and for good reason. however when chaim yankel talks about nice homes its ok because he is not contradicting himself. The yeshive however is. Its so simple.
The Yeshiva ia now admitting they erred, and seeks to make amends.
How do you know this? Did they write a letter or something?
I find the following a right out hypocrisy on BMG.
They tell us that we can not have internet in our homes because of its dangerous affect on adults and children .
personally i happen to agree with its dangers but dont agree with yeshiva probing our personal lives.
But here is what i dont get .
BMG has no problem taking large and small donations from people all over the world who definately have internet in thier homes (some very chashuva yungerliet as well as chashuva ballei batim)
Does the yeshiva ask them why or if they have internet? i will let you answer that question.
If itys so treif to have it then it should be assur to take thier money too.
The Yeshiva ia now admitting they erred, and seeks to make amends.
Now lets get them to admit the stadium was a mistake.
Hypocrisy
Hypocrisy is when the yeshiva says that even lechatchila one should not have internet at all, EVEN for parnasa, and the has it on their office computers.
Are you jealous that you can't keep up with the Jonses?
Personally, people in Lakewood will never learn to be happy with what they have, for one simple reason: They are UNEDUCATED. People without a college education tend not to be able to see through an issue with the clarity and understanding of a college graduate. That's why they get hung up on the stupidities of life.
Personally, people in Lakewood will never learn to be happy with what they have, for one simple reason: They are UNEDUCATED. People without a college education tend not to be able to see through an issue with the clarity and understanding of a college graduate. That's why they get hung up on the stupidities of life.
Well, that must be the reason why every college grad is so happy and well-adjusted. Your statement is beyond ridiculous.
People without a college education tend not to be able to see through an issue with the clarity and understanding of a college graduate.
Assuming this says that you "rabbi yisroel fishman, Mirrer Yeshiva" went to college, it would imply the exact opposite.
For some reason I was sent the Lakewood Yeshiva Chinese Auction booklet.
I felt it strange for an institution that may have more people learning Torah in it-than any other one in history.
Maybe size murks the mission. When Rav A.Kotler ZT"L was nifter in 1962 BMG had approximately 200 students-today maybe 20 times as much.
Does anyone believe that the grandchildren have as much influence as the grandfather?
Maybe institutions by their very nature lose the ability to keep their purity.
The Yeshiva ia now admitting they erred, and seeks to make amends.
Admitting to who? Where?
Admitting to themself in the office is NOTHING.
אין קלעצק זענען נישט געווען קייןChinese auctions.
in kletsk or for that matter untill recently Bmg was a yeshiva . Today it is a Yeshiva And a UNIVERSITY and a BUISINESS VENTURE. I am waiting for the day when BMG will become a public trading company.
Maybe Reb. Rischel has some insight in this.
I think Rabbi Rosenblum has to get involved in this chinese auction. Maybe he can convince AK to change or retract the booklet.
But then again i think he is a NOGEIA BEDAVAR
Today it is a Yeshiva And a UNIVERSITY and a BUISINESS VENTURE.
AK explained the tution cost even for people with no means what so ever by saying "We are the Harvard and Yale of yeshivos and that allow us to charge a premium tuition." A long long way away from kletz and it's mentality toward torah.
I think Rabbi Rosenblum has to get involved in this chinese auction. Maybe he can convince AK to change or retract the booklet.
OR convince BMG to require that AK not be above asking for "Daas Torah" as they require of everyone else.
But then again i think he is a NOGEIA BEDAVAR
I don't know if you mean Nogeia about chinese auctions or running a mosod, but he cetainly does not wan't Bmg to put him off the map in lakewood. (as they put him on by the alleged "issues" with capitol.
But then again i think he is a NOGEIA BEDAVAR
R' Rosenblum knows its not the agudah anymore that make gedolim, but it is ...
(I can't finish the sentence, or the comment won't be posted.)
"I am all for nice things,it's "showy' what I'm against."
It's subjective. One man's "nice" is another man's "showy." Try to be a bit more tolerant.
alleged "issues" with capitol.
It is sad that at the time no one publicly called the whole thing for what is was.
Look how many businesses had to close down and move out.
I think issues that involve parnasah should be decided by people who know what it means to have bills to pay, kids to feed, tution... Baruch hashem we do not treat our gedolim like we did years ago and pay them a very meager salary, but with that they shouldnt get involed in issues that affect peoples money. Granted they deal daily with aniyim and terible situations, but you can't be in someone elses shoes untill you actualy are there.
AND if this goes for the Gedolim, it all the more goes for the kanoyim, and "askunim".
Look how many businesses had to close down and move out.
I think issues that involve parnasah should be decided by people who know what it means to have bills to pay, kids to feed, tution... Baruch hashem we do not treat our gedolim like we did years ago and pay them a very meager salary, but with that they shouldnt get involed in issues that affect peoples money. Granted they deal daily with aniyim and terible situations, but you can't be in someone elses shoes untill you actualy are there.
I completely disagree. First of all, gedolim can't get involved in issues that affect money? Since when? Secondly, certain things come before money. People know where they are operating stores and what goes on there. The monetary concerns of a few cannot override the moral concerns of a community, especially when the few storeowners should know better.
I completely disagree. First of all, gedolim can't get involved in issues that affect money? Since when? Secondly, certain things come before money. People know where they are operating stores and what goes on there. The monetary concerns of a few cannot override the moral concerns of a community, especially when the few storeowners should know better.
When you concider the fact that the capitol themselfs were judged unfairly, never given any chance to dispute all the "stories", never looking into the fact that most of the people making "noise" had other issues with the capitol to start with, beleving anyone who had anything to say as long as it was against the capitol, and then on top of that affecting business for who ever else was there, is one of the most sorry episodes in lakewood "politcs"
I completely disagree. First of all, gedolim can't get involved in issues that affect money? Since when?
Since in recent times that they don't have any clue how the averge person lives.
Secondly, certain things come before money.
Of course, but until they know how to weigh what and when something goes before money they shouldn't.
The monetary concerns of a few cannot override the moral concerns of a community
Except when the shoe is on the other foot.
When you concider the fact that the capitol themselfs were judged unfairly, never given any chance to dispute all the "stories", never looking into the fact that most of the people making "noise" had other issues with the capitol to start with, beleving anyone who had anything to say as long as it was against the capitol, and then on top of that affecting business for who ever else was there, is one of the most sorry episodes in lakewood "politcs"
The truth of that statement , while highly debateable, is not the point. I was responding to the issue you brought up, namely that Gedolim should not get involved in issues that can affect people's money because they are not in their shoes. That is 100% wrong in my opinion.
Since in recent times that they don't have any clue how the averge person lives.
I don't know who you are referring to specifically, but unfortunately (or fortunately, depending on your viewpoint) most "gedolim" are "average" people themselves.
Of course, but until they know how to weigh what and when something goes before money they shouldn't.
And who is going to decide when they know how to properly judge an issue? With this logic, nobody ever has to listen to any gadol.
Except when the shoe is on the other foot.
That may be true for a few, not all.
Rabbi Rosenblum a Nogaia B'Dover? Get Real!! He is probably from the very few straight shooters that are still with us today.
I don't know who you are referring to specifically, but unfortunately (or fortunately, depending on your viewpoint) most "gedolim" are "average" people themselves.
Not the lifestyle, but rather how much it takes to scrape together enough, money to live. While Gedolim saleries are nothing to be envious, nobody is being payed that they have to look for ways to make ends meet. Tell me one godol that goes into "chovos"
And who is going to decide when they know how to properly judge an issue? With this logic, nobody ever has to listen to any gadol.
Nobody is disputing that you have to listen. But it is a new thing that gedolim aren't told the other side, And they don't know enough about the other side to realise what they aren't being told, and/or to realise the effects of their decisions.
Of course, but until they know how to weigh what and when something goes before money they shouldn't.
And who is going to decide when they know how to properly judge an issue? With this logic, nobody ever has to listen to any gadol.
Look at making of a godol. Slifkin however got what he dereves.
I don't know who you are referring to specifically, but unfortunately (or fortunately, depending on your viewpoint) most "gedolim" are "average" people themselves.
Show me one gadol that understands financial pressure, rabbonim are not any more the poorest memebrs of the kehila.
This place reminds me of the coffee room in the old dining room building
There are rumors that the rosh yeshivas make $110,000+, and there are rumors that some of the rosh yeshivas go to gemachs, so go figure.
Look at making of a godol. Slifkin however got what he dereves.
Slifkin didn't write that book; Kaminetzky did - get your facts straight.
Look at making of a godol. Slifkin however got what he dereves.
Slifkin didn't write that book; Kaminetzky did - get your facts straight.
Making of a gadol was attack way overboard, but the slifkin affair and slifkin got what he deserved.
Is that more understandable?
the coffee room was a lot closer to the beis medrash...
the coffee room was a lot closer to the beis medrash...
I was posting these comments from an office computer over looking the b.m.
Rabbi Rosenbloom is certainly not a straight shooter, because if he was he would not listen to one sided stories.
This is why he likes to tinker lakewood , because in bp and in flatbush hes is known for being the big time local KANOI .
He is certainly nogaia bedavar when it comes to lakewood, BMG issues because he is a silent partner so to speak among the rosh yeshivos .
He will never tell them that they cant build a stadium or not to take treif gelt from donors or to have BMG withdraw the recent chinese action boooklet .
The Rosh Hayeshivas don't make anywhere near 110k.
You can look up yourself, how much they make on guidstar.org
"OR convince BMG to require that AK not be above asking for "Daas Torah" as they require of everyone else. "
What fool thinks daas torah get applied equaly?
"The Rosh Hayeshivas don't make anywhere near 110k.
You can look up yourself, how much they make on guidstar.org "
Why don't you post what its says there for the 3+ bmg corporations, and then explain the tax mess those forms are.
The salary of the R"Y's really has absolutely nothing to do with the Chinese Auction. Are you stam curious? Because it's really not anybody's business. Would you like everyone to look at how much you're making?
From guidestar tax returns page 10
"THE TRENTON TIMES A MAGAZINE WIDELY READ BY THE SCHOOLS' CONSTITUENCY, HAD AN ADVERTISEMENT FROM THE SCHOOL, STATING ITS POLICY OF NONDISCRIMINATION."
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I thought it never get posted to start with.
What did they post the info from guidestar?
There are plenty of intersting things in this guidestar form, but I can't post it. a)lashon hara b)moderator
I thought it never get posted to start with.
It was my mistake, I should not have posted it.
What did they post the info from guidestar?
No, it was confidential information that only that poster would know. Meaning, it's probably a fairy tale but it should not be posted here. You're not missing anything, I promise.
Meaning, it's probably a fairy tale but it should not be posted here.
If it is a fairy tale what could be wrong with posting it?
No, it was confidential information that only that poster would know.
I thought the whole point of modderating is for offensive comments or lashon hara.
"Making of a gadol was attack way overboard, but the slifkin affair and slifkin got what he deserved."
That's b.s. Both affairs were ridiculous.
I thought the whole point of modderating is for offensive comments or lashon hara. What the person was trying to post is Assur L'Halacha. I'm no posek, but even I know that.
It was my mistake, I should not have posted it.
What did they post the info from guidestar?
No, it was confidential information that only that poster would know. Meaning, it's probably a fairy tale but it should not be posted here. You're not missing anything, I promise.
Give us a hint.
(I think you know it is more true the fairy tale)
What the person was trying to post is Assur L'Halacha. I'm no posek, but even I know that.
What was assur lehalacha about it?
What was assur lehalacha about it?
If I tell you that, I'm telling you the post. Trust me on this one, you're not missing anything. I am not trying supress anybody's opinion, but what the person was trying to post was just wrong.
Looking to start a new lakewood blog so insiders that know something can wistle blow without being censored.
Anyone want to join?
What halacha?
You are commenting on comments that you didn't post.
Settle down folks. We will not post Lashon Hara, Richilus or Motzei Shem Ra here.
There are way to comment, without censorship, you just have to think.
Looking to start a new lakewood blog so insiders that know something can wistle blow without being censored.
Anyone want to join?
ME
Attn: Yeshiva Orthodoxy, Chief of staff, Shtender (and lakewood yid)
This topic is used up and dried out, start a new post to hack about.
Lakewoodhocker I wish you good luck why dont you name your blog "narrowmindedcofferoomhocker"
i firmly believe that just like BMG refuses to give a kollel person his weekly check if he has internet in his house ,so to they should also refuse donations both small and large from big time rich and non rich Balley Batim who posses internet in thier homes . I guartentee you that most big time donators have internet not only for buissines but for pleasure too.
If BmG does take thier monies then it is quite obvious that BMG are a bunch of phonies
Take a look at Rabbi Efraim Wachsmans yeshiva of monsey, fundraising campaign which he had two week ago. Guess where he had it ? YES he had it on the INTERNET
Just for the record Rabbi Effy Wachsman was one of the main spearkers in lakewood to ban the internet , so go figure the chutzpah that he had to go fundraising on the internet.
i firmly believe that just like BMG refuses to give a kollel person his weekly check if he has internet in his house ,so to they should also refuse donations both small and large from big time rich and non rich Balley Batim who posses internet in thier homes . I guartentee you that most big time donators have internet not only for buissines but for pleasure too.
If BmG does take thier monies then it is quite obvious that BMG are a bunch of phonies
Take a look at Rabbi Efraim Wachsmans yeshiva of monsey, fundraising campaign which he had two week ago. Guess where he had it ? YES he had it on the INTERNET
Just for the record Rabbi Effy Wachsman was one of the main spearkers in lakewood to ban the internet , so go figure the chutzpah that he had to go fundraising on the internet.
This comment was taken straight off another blog. Get a life
Why did you leave out 'iffy' this comment, you were afraid to get censored?
FYI, kollel checks will still be paid to those yungerleit who have internet in their homes, so long as they receive an an ishur from one of the yeshiva poskim.
Here
"Looking to start a new lakewood blog so insiders that know something can wistle blow without being censored."
So go ahead and do it. And be sure to post a link here once you get set up, so we can all find it.
"This comment was taken straight off another blog. Get a life"
Maybe it was this guy who posted it there too.
"This comment was taken straight off another blog. Get a life"
Maybe it was this guy who posted it there too.
It was posted there alot earlier.
So go ahead and do it. And be sure to post a link here once you get set up, so we can all find it.
Its here, but hidden in plain sight.
I found it
"Looking to start a new lakewood blog so insiders that know something can wistle blow without being censored."
So go ahead and do it. And be sure to post a link here once you get set up, so we can all find it.
How blind can you be.
how much is tuition in bmg?
what do they ask for?
"Looking to start a new lakewood blog so insiders that know something can wistle blow without being censored.
Anyone want to join?"
A bal yiras shamayim who writes in the public forum about frum issues/people is severley limited by Mosaic law.
What is the heter to write loshon hora and the like?
Start a blog without halachic restraints, you'll get a lot of hits. In the next world too.
Hey Mr. Yeshiva Orth.. & Shtender-- Dont feel so threatened about this new blog getting started. Nothing lasts forever. You had your run in the sun and now someone else will take over where you left off. I understand you are trying to moderate and censor comments here. THATS THE AGE OLD PROBLEM OF LAKEWOOD-JUST LET PEOPLE TALK THEIR MINDS-THATS WHAT A BLOG IS FOR. IF YOU CANT HANDLE THE NOCKING OF THE YESHIVA AND ITS FACULTY THEN YOU OBVIOUSLY STARTED THE WRONG BLOG. POSSIBLY YOU SHOULD START A BLOG WITH RECIPES INSTEAD AS THAT TAKES NO BACK BONE.
YOU WERE GOOD FOR A BIT BUT LIFE GOES ON-LOTS OF LUCK.
WE WILL SEE IF YOU HAVE WHAT IT TAKES IF YOU PUBLISH THIS POST.
Amen, Anon. This blog is perfectly in the spirit of those values Lakewood promotes the most. Don't like something? Ban it. Good job, Shtender and co. You've reached the madreiga of your BMG superiors.
We didn't ban anything, the halacha does. If that somehow presents a problem and you feel that you can't live without your daily Lashon Hara fix, than by all means, take it elsewhere.
Calling AK names is not loshon hora--- YOU HAVE NO BACKBONE AND DONT BELONG AS HOST TO THIS SORT OF BLOG.
As anon previously said-you WERE good but now its time for us all to move on to another blog that was not yet taken over by the vaad/bmg!!!!
Could all the hockers leave already instead of cluttering up everything with all the kvetching
"How blind can you be."
How about if you just post the link.
hey lakewood hock that was pretty fast- up and down in 1 day!!!!
did the mafia get to you that fast?????????????????
Oh gosh i think they are at my door now.
Anonymous said...
"Looking to start a new lakewood blog so insiders that know something can wistle blow without being censored."
So go ahead and do it. And be sure to post a link here once you get set up, so we can all find it.
----------------------------
If you need a place to air your feelings about BMG/Lakewood or anyother mosad or org. with out censorship then try CHAPTSEM BLOG. He is more then willing to help and participate.
Yasher koach to chaptsem!!
someone said I completely disagree. First of all, gedolim can't get involved in issues that affect money? Since when? Secondly, certain things come before money. People know where they are operating stores and what goes on there. The monetary concerns of a few cannot override the moral concerns of a community, especially when the few storeowners should know better.
sorry but your own morals don't come before someoneelses money. why are some peolple so uneducated on choshen mishpat. and what do you mean they should know better? how were they promoting anything bad?
sorry but your own morals don't come before someoneelses money. why are some peolple so uneducated on choshen mishpat.
Here's a perfect example of why reading comprehension is so important. I said "the moral concerns of the community" which is not "my own morals" Sheesh.
and what do you mean they should know better? how were they promoting anything bad?
They knew where they were opening up shop. And on the off chance that they didn't, they certainly knew once they were in business what was going on there.
hey lakewood hock that was pretty fast- up and down in 1 day!!!!
did the mafia get to you that fast?????????????????
Oh gosh i think they are at my door now.
I didn't mind the truth (or loshon hor acording to some) or the fact that some posted ak's email address.(besides it is public already,yes it is available on the internet, not just a rumor blog but an offical source) However nivel peh in the second post? I wasn't going to start deleting comments with nivel peh, that would be hypocricy, but I could stand the sickness and childness of it. (real nivel peh, not a four letter word)
"sorry but your own morals don't come before someoneelses money. why are some peolple so uneducated on choshen mishpat.
Here's a perfect example of why reading comprehension is so important. I said "the moral concerns of the community" which is not "my own morals" Sheesh.
and what do you mean they should know better? how were they promoting anything bad?
They knew where they were opening up shop. And on the off chance that they didn't, they certainly knew once they were in business what was going on there. "
Why are the rosh yeshivas afraid to go to a din torah if it is not fakert from choshen mispat?
Why are the rosh yeshivas afraid to go to a din torah if it is not fakert from choshen mispat?
I'm not debating the pros and cons of the Capitol thing. I was just responding to the question I was asked.
"the moral concerns of the community"
Right, the self appointed leaders deciding what their adopted community's morals should be.
"Calling AK names is not loshon hora--- YOU HAVE NO BACKBONE AND DONT BELONG AS HOST TO THIS SORT OF BLOG.
As anon previously said-you WERE good but now its time for us all to move on to another blog that was not yet taken over by the vaad/bmg!!!!"
Making fun; calling names; disparaging tamedai chachamim is mutar?
BMG controls a lot of things, this blog ain't one of them!
I would like to announce a new Lakewood community program:
New Lakewood Program
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