Sunday, December 18, 2005

Lakewood 'informal', success!

Even before the start of tonight's novel meet and greet event at Chinka hall, Yeshiva's money men are giving themselves a big pat on the back.

Success big time, they' re claiming. People responding... Money coming in....

They're giddily ecstatic by just how much their experiment- literally- payed off.

Hats off to Aaron and the crew. We'll be watching for a big attendance tonight.
posted by Yeshiva Orthodoxy
at 2:15 PM


Anonymous SephardiLady said...

Wow! Keep us updated. Maybe some figures to compare amounts raised from this format versus the traditional format of past years.

3:14 PM  
Anonymous Lakewood Yid said...

I would agrre with the last poster but without the colorful language. I hope they make enough money so that they will not have to make some more by putting a 50 million dollar burden on the "oilam"

5:25 PM  
Anonymous Sick of the Whiny Lakewood Homeowners said...

You guys are truly a bunch of idiots. If you want to argue about the stadium proposal, question whether we want it's influence in our community, not what impact it's going to have on our taxes. Noooo. You're not concerned about the ta'am of the city, just your lifesytle. Perhaps if you had decent jobs before buying a home, the tax bill wouldn't hit so hard. So, too, if you hadn't signed an adjustable rate mortgage when interest rates where at an all time low, but due to rise, if you hadn't finagled a no-doc loan by borrowing money to sit in your account until the approval so that you would qualify for a loan that you could never realistically afford to pay off, and if you hadn't been wildly optimistic when calculating maintenance cost on a home. If anything, if it's money that you're worried about, you hould stand in line to thank the priciples involved in the stadium deal -- the $50 million is going to be repaid from the taxes on that very property. That's right -- land that brings in absolutely no tax dollars now, will produce ratables to cover the bond and actually lower property taxes (or at least slow their growth). Take a basic econimc course before you spout off about that which you know dreadfully little.

6:09 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"question whether we want it's influence in our community,"

Ooh, so scary. The terrible influence of the stadium. If it's as bad as the BC's stadium, there's not much to worry about.

"the $50 million is going to be repaid from the taxes on that very property."

That's the story they sell suckers like you. It the same story they gave us with BC's stadium. But that's not the way it worked, is it? We'll still paying for that one, and will be for a long time.

6:14 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I'd be very interested in seeing a source for the "fact" you so casually throw about that First Energy Field has impacted the property tax rate in Lakewood in any way whatsoever.

I won't be holding my breath...

6:44 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

A source? It's not news that they took a huge bond to pay for it. How can that not affect the tax rate?

7:42 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I thought so. You're not able to see past the bond. What is the value of the new ratables as a result of the project? They far outweight the maintenance of the bond.

If your parking space rental goes up, but you get a fat raise which more than covers it, you're still better off, no? Surely you're bright enough to see that.

The same is true here. The bond is more than covered by the new tax income from the project.

7:47 PM  
Anonymous hock a tcheinik said...

Both of you dont know what your talking about your all stam hocking go back to the gemara and learn..if your such a financial consultant why dont you go get a job

7:56 PM  
Anonymous SephardiLady said...

For crying out loud guys, some of us are actually interested in the actual subject at hand. If you want to discuss the stadium, post on a relevant post.

7:57 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"What is the value of the new ratables as a result of the project? They far outweight the maintenance of the bond."

What new tax ratables? What new business has opened b/c of the stadium? I challenge you to name one.

BTW, the leaseholder on the stadium pays only about $125,000 per year for the stadium. That doesn't exactly service a $25 mil. loan, does it?

See it here (scroll down a little):

SL - I posted at the original spot, but wanted to answer the guy here too. That's the nature of blog-comment discussion: It's very fluid.

8:05 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

You have no idea what ratables mean. What it means is that they'r projecting that because the stadium goes up, the land around it will be devloped and the town will get increased taxes from the newly developed land around it. The land under the stadium itself is owned by the township and they obviously do not tax themselves. They lease it to the team for FREE and the team gets all the revenue from the tickets. (That is the same deal that the Blueclaws have).

Now thers 2 things that are wrong with assuming the ratables will go up. First, the surrounding land may or may not be developed. Yeshiva owns it and their corporate park just aint knocking. (I spoke to Mr. Mueller about it 2 months ago).
Second, the increased costs to the township whenevr thers new development usuaaly eats up the increase in taxes. For example, although there are new houses being built everywhere (which are also called "increased ratables"), the extra costs they have placed on the township have resulted in no net gain. Hence, the increase in the tax rate.
In short, "increased ratables" usually do not work. (just ask Malboro township which discovered for every new dollar being taken in from new construction, the town was forced to spend 1.48 in new costs due to those houses.

By the way, I do not know who you are, but I can afford the taxes on my house. that said, its a falsehood to use misleading thins suach as ratables which alot of people do not understand. The fact is that the bond will for sure have to be paid off (at a total cost far in excess of 50 mill but the ratables are an iffy thing at best.

8:05 PM  
Anonymous Moish said...

When I spoke to Bob Singer's office, I asked them what ratables refered to and they said the surrounding land will be developed. I couldnt understand why they did not say the land of the stadium itself. After your explenation I understand. the town owns it and they do not pay taxes on their own property.
(Them and Yeshiva of course)

8:16 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

And I know baal habatim who were begged to come, not just give money but please show your face it has to look like a success

9:09 PM  
Anonymous WITHOUT NAME CALLING... said...

hey hey hey---Sick of the Whiny Lakewood Homeowners said...

You sound so so bitter. Where you outbid on a house by a kiollel guy or something???

Go back into your hole and cower alone. You think you sound like you know what your talking about--you dont. YOU SOUND LIKE A MORON!!!

9:28 PM  
Anonymous Shimi said...

You'd be doing everyone a chesed by shutting down the comments. They certainly don't accomplish anything positive.

9:48 PM  
Anonymous מרן המשגיח שליט"א said...

No the comments are very valuable to hear the voice of the Tzibur. Maybee you should make everyone register before commenting. Don't let a few #### ruin it for the tzibur.

10:41 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Let's not forget the hypocrisy of the roshei yeshiva's letter that came out after the Blue Claws stadium was built. They allowed it to be built; they benefitted from it; but then they yell and scream about how dangerous it is to our ruchnios! Maybe they should have thought of that before they took the bribe.

Yeshiva stands to make between 200-250 MILLION Dollars on the deal. The town has agreed to rezone the land for 750 - 1000 housing units and retail space.

11:16 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

That is the ratables they are refering to: the 750-1000 housing units and the retail space. Bob Singer is saying the tax received from those houses will more then make up the payments required on the 50 million dollar bond.

The problem is like I said before that first, the retail space might never be built (just like the coprporate offices were not built).
Second, the sextra costs that the township incurs as aresult of more houses and stores usually eats up all the revenue. Thats why our taxes keep rising even though builders are building everywhere.

11:50 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I get it, then. You've bought your house - fief everyone else.

12:11 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Tho town is not that stupid the deal is that they have to build 100,00 s.f. of retail then they can build 250 houses - then they have to build another 100,000 s.f. of retail to build 250 more houses etc.

8:41 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"You'd be doing everyone a chesed by shutting down the comments. They certainly don't accomplish anything positive."

I think that having people express their disgust at the power games played by yeshiva and vaad is a very positive thing. In lakewood today, the tzibur has no voice.

10:08 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Why has'nt the township or the VAAD at least have a forum where the public can voice their opinion. I do not agree with reb yudel shain on everything but I do agree with him that the VAAD should be elected and not chosen for us

11:02 AM  
Anonymous Struggling Lakewood Taxpayer said...

PLEASE PLEASE call Bob singer's office and tell him that we do not want the stadium.
His # is (732) 901-0702

12:02 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"but I do agree with him that the VAAD should be elected and not chosen for us"

He's saying more than that, actually; i.e. that the roshei yeshiva should not be functioning as the tovei ha'ir. I agree wholeheartedly.

12:31 PM  
Anonymous yungerman said...

I called Bob Singer's office and the lady told me that many people have called. Rabosai, this might work. Call!!!!!!

1:09 PM  
Anonymous Fotheringay-Phipps said...

I agree that the idea of electing the Vaad has some merit. But the problem is that most of the people in Lakewood are unsophisticated politically (as are most people elsewhere) and are taken by nonsense arguments like increasing ratables etc.

In general the township committee appears to be totally committed to the idea that increasing development of the town is a good idea, to be promoted at all costs. (In 10 years from now there might not be a tree left standing.) It's like the guy who bought things for $10 and sold them for $9 and thought he would make a living by "selling a lot". If you ignore one side of the balance sheet and focus exclusively on the other, you can do a lot of stupid things. The fact that they are explicitely looking to develop low income housing is the most egregious example of this, IMHO, since low income people are extremely costly for the rest of the taxpayers, in terms of the amount they cost (in school enrollment and other areas) versus how much they pay in taxes. The deficit is made up by everyone else. Even if the low income houses were fully paid for by some magical source, they are still a disaster.

The problem is that when election time rolls around, the committee people say "school budgets are out of our control", and the people fall for it, not realizing that one major reason the school budget is as high as it is is because of all the people enrolled in the public school system whose parents were attracted to the town by all the various intitiatives that these committee people did in the name of developing the town.

I don't see a way around the problem, really.

1:14 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

The school budget can be controlled & all other budget items as well. There were recently some intersting & educational tax articles in the Lakewood Shopper...

10:18 PM  

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