Sunday, December 18, 2005

Lakewood tax apraisels

From an emailer: there is lakewood vaad meeting i think tuesday night in yeshiva ketana (one of the vaad members places) it is about property tax adjustments if anyone thinks they were rated unfairly, bring along your tax apraisals, signs are up in some shuls

The way the apraisels work seems nutty. Because your neighbors just bought their house for an exorbant price you immediatly have to suffer? Shouldn't the house's price be apraised looking at its' value over a longer period of time? Condos in the vincinity of yeshiva apraised for 700,000$? Today's high price might be a fluke.
posted by Yeshiva Orthodoxy
at 1:53 PM

36 Comments:

Anonymous Anonymous said...

It's worse than that. Houses should be (and I believe used to be) appraised mostly on the basis of their intrinsic value; i.e. the number of rooms, bathrooms, the acreage etc. This yields a fair assessment. Assessing by house prices is nothing but a money grab by the township. It is manifestly unfair.

But don't expect the vaad to do anything. They are deaf, dumb and blind when it comes to the interests of the tzibur. Their self-interest is another matter.

3:04 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Same thing in FAr Rockaway and The Five Towns.

3:33 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

This problem in lakewood was created by our own ooonzereh choshiva Realters and our own fault for paying the price tag. Who asked you to pay the BIG price TAG. ITS our own very fault for not making a Machah ages ago, when the Big time realters would convice the sellers to up the price so that he can get a bigger percentage and he re-assured the seller that it would sell. So who are you blaming exactly. the township? blame yourself for a change.
You make a machah for every other mundane issue in town , what happened here?

5:36 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I'm with anonymous. I've got absolutely zero pity for these whiny homeowners complaining about property taxes on houses they couldn't realistically afford in the first place. Newsflash -- YOU ARE NOT THE TZIBBUR. You're sense of entitlement is nauseating.

6:14 PM  
Blogger yudel shain said...

THE REAPPRAISAL HAD TO BE DONE BASED ON NJ STATE LAW WHICH STATE BASICLY THAT WHEN THE CURRENT ASSESSMENT AREN'T IN LINE WITH THE CURRENT SALE PRICES OF PROPERTY. THE STATE MANDATE IS SET FOR 85% RATIO, LAKEWOOD WAS AT A RATIO OF 65%, WHICH MEANT THAT NEW HOUSES WERE PAYING MORE OF THE BURDEN(100%) VERSUS OLDER HOMES PAYING ONLY BASED ON 65% VALUE.

THE PROBLEM IS THAT THE REAASSMENT ISN'T IN COMPLIANCE WITH STATE LAW. REAAPRAISAL IS SUPPOSED TO BE BASED ON COMPARABLE SALES OF SIMMILLIAR PROPERTIES (WHILE ALSO TAKING INTO CONSIDERATION THE REPLACEMNT VALUE OF THE HOUSE AND ADDING THE LAND VALUE).
THE LAKEWOOD REASSEMENT WAS DONE AS FOLLOWS; A 90 FOOT FRONT LOT SELLS FOR $259,000.00, SO NOW WE ESTABLISH A MINIMUM LOT VALUE, NOW WE TACK ON TO THAT THE REPLACEMENT COST OF THE HOUSE AND BINGO.

THEY TOOK THE MOST EXPENSIVE BLOCK IN COVENTRY SQUARE AND THE MOST EXPENSIVE SALE AND ASSESSED ALL OF COVENTRY ON THE FALS FICTICIOUS VALUE.

ON THE OTHER HAND WESTGATE THEY ASSESSED LOW (SO THEY'LL SELL MORE HOUSES AT EXORBIANT PRICES).

MOST ALL OF THE PROBLEMS BOILS DOWN TO THE ONE KEY PROBLEM "AL PI HALACHA" "ZAIN TUVEI HA'IR" MUST BE ELECTED BY THE RESIDENTS-IT IS UNHEARD OF AL PI TORAH TO HAVE AN APPOINTED COMMITTEE TO REPRESENT THEIR OWN INTERESTS ON THE BACKS OF THE "TZIBUR", AS REB CHAIM SHMULEVITZ IN A SHMUES RE: DOVID HAMELECH AND NOSON HA'NOVEI- TAKING FROM THE USH'EIR TO GIVE TO SOMEONE ELSE "OIF YENEMS CHESH'BIN" "IZ CHAIV MISAH".

ENOUGH FOR TODAY.

Yudel Shain
(NJ State Certified tax assessor)
I have no interest in responding to each individuals calls re: their taxes, or the DEVILS, BLUE CLAWS, PUBLIC WORKS, CEDARBRIDGE, LAND SWAPS, LAND GIVEAWAYS ETC.

HAVE AN ELECTION FOR REPRESENTATION AS REQUIRED BY THE TORAH AND WE'LL AT LEAST STOP THE RUNAWAY LOCOMOTIVE. (BY THE WAY THE LIGHT AT THE END OF THE TUNNEL AKA "THE VAAD" IS A LOCOMOTIVE COMING AT YOU.

6:22 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Oh please, you people are ridiculous. The issue of price-based taxes is not a local issue; it's all over the country. The issue is that people who bought when houses were *affordable* are suddently paying taxes for unaffordable homes, simply b/c others are now able to pay these prices. Your can have people who lived in a house for forty years who suddenly find that the taxes have gone through the roof. It's clear that this is an unfair means of assessment.

6:25 PM  
Anonymous Yudel Shain is NOT the Answer said...

Yudel Shain:

Your command of halacha is dubious, at best. Or perhaps you can justify bidding against local mosdos over parcels of land which you had no interest in utilizing, just to drive up the price?

6:49 PM  
Blogger yudel shain said...

iF YOU GIVE ME YOUR MOTHER'S NAME I'LL HAVE A MI SHBERACH SAID FOR YOU.

THE GVAR ALIM MOSDOS DEPRIVED ALL OTHER MOSDOS FROM BIDDING ON THOSE PARCELS. I WAS REPRESENTING SOME OF THOSE OTHER NEBECH MOSDOS.THE GVAR ALIMS REFUSED TO HAVE A GOREL BETWEEN ALL OF THE MOSDOS AS SHOULD BE AL PI TORAH.
YUDEL SHAIN

7:21 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

What Shain's saying is true. I know it from the head of one of the non-powerful mosdos who was subject to intimidation from the big guns not to bid.

I'm glad Shain did what he did. Ditto Schwartz. Anyway, the whole land for mosdos is just another geneivah from the general public. If the township doesn't need these lands, let them sell them at market rates to lower the tax burden.

The fact that Shain got as many votes as he did shows how disenchanted the olam has become with the powerful bosses who run the town.

7:48 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

How many parcels did you win, Mr. Shain?

Name some of those "nebech mosdos".

You're quick to cite things as being "al pi Torah" - who did you consult when you chose to bid against fellow Jews?

How much money was you presence mafsid the mosdos who won those properties?

You are a parasite as are those who would support you.

Anything to keep your precious tax rates lower, though.

Of course if your kid's tuition goes up more than the savings on the property tax, you're not really so much better off, now are you?

7:51 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"Of course if your kid's tuition goes up more than the savings on the property tax, you're not really so much better off, now are you?"

You seem to think that getting the land will keep tuition rates in check. Dream on, baby.

8:07 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Certainly tiution rates will go up more as a result of Yudel the Parasite's actions. Thanks for looking out for the little guy, Yudel.

8:09 PM  
Anonymous emes said...

What yudel is doing he'e exposing the naked truth of what realy goes on behind our backs.all theese things the VAAD and other askonim seem to be doing by helping out the tzibbur including affordable housing and other social services are all a small peace of the big pie which they are all eating on the taxpayers expense.

8:24 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

So move. Simple solution. The people who built this city and continue to be it's foundation aren't exactly thrilled with your presence anyway.

8:28 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

On the night of the lakewood dinner lets not bash our faithful askanim.
Lets wait two days before we expose who even pays property tax.

8:45 PM  
Anonymous Reb Eliyahu said...

רבותי- Yudel shain is the only person looking out for us here in Lakewood. Although it is hard to agree with everything he does however he is the only one taking on AK and the Vaad. He has recently won a major court battle against the city swapping land at ten times the value. Keep up the good work.

9:28 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Um, no. My child's school doesn't accept your children, thankfully.

In any event, you aren't the hand that feeds me (and neither is my father in law). You would be wise to keep that in mind.

10:14 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I second R' Yudel's motion. As 'far as arbait macht frei's prescription - unfortunately for him he never saw the light and still has it backwards. The only reason the one above is enabling his paycheck alltogether - is only because of our dear neighbors who are dedicating themselves to limud hatorah! I beseech you to immediately apologize (for your own sake) so YOU don't bite the hand that feeds YOU chalilah...

10:32 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Unfortunately again for 'arbait macht frei' you already seem to belong to the "Enlightened" crowd. Chazor Becha! You're headed in a bad direction!

10:35 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Let's not forget the hypocrisy of the roshei yeshiva's letter that came out after the Blue Claws stadium was built. They allowed it to be built; they benefitted from it; but then they yell and scream about how dangerous it is to our ruchnios! Maybe they should have thought of that before they took the bribe.

Yeshiva stands to make between 200-250 MILLION Dollars on the deal. The town has agreed to rezone the land for 750 - 1000 housing units and retail space.

11:18 PM  
Anonymous arbeit said...

all,
i am not chas vichalila knocking those that are sitting and shtaiging all day. I am the only one in my family actually working and i admire all the kollel/rabeim. I do apologise if i came across negative about kollel or for sounding like i was knocking it....

I was only talking to the guy who said we should all move out of lakewood. Truth be told we do support the kehila and we do share in the burdon of paying tuition and tzadaka....

and for the record-i am not enlightened. I am just like you. My kids go to Yeshiva K'tana and bais tovah....

11:19 PM  
Anonymous arbeit said...

though i am knocking the ones that say they are in kolel in order to get the $$$$$$ but havent been in yeshiva all zman-and its usually those people that have the nice houses and fancy cars while being "in kolel"

no body can accuse me of wrongdoing by knocking those individuals!!!

11:23 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Beis Tova? How many yungerleit snd their children to Beis Tova? We obviously have very different views on what is the "crem de la crem".

11:29 PM  
Anonymous arbeit said...

i said i was not a yungerman but rather a working man- im not so makpid on girls schools although i was acceopted to bais faiga i opted for a smaller school.
Guess you cant say a word about my boys school!!!!
I have to admit i am the son of a rosh yeshiva and i have BH made nice in biz lately-and the schools know it.

12:01 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Arbeit macht frei - I do appreciate your coming back inline and I apologize for referring to you as being 'enlightened' (though your pseudonym doesn’t add much credence) but I would only recommend that we all tread very carefully when dealing with issues regarding the true kavod of those who are learning. There's simply a red line that shouldn't be crossed. I have no interest in carrying on about values so central to our faith and that limud hatorah serves as our connection with the RBS"A and it is the only thing that will maintain K"Y's very existence... but think about it from this angle... It's not for me or anybody to judge one's sincerity about being in Kollel - In my career I have some 'shvache' guys become very serious learners that accomplished wonderful things that ultimately benefited the entire tzibur - and sometimes we may not even see it so soon - but that fellow can still be a recipient of the positive influences from the kollel which will in turn come back in many possible & positive ways (e.g., he will support torah, he will encourage his children to become talmidei chachomim, he won't be swayed by temptations when he's later involved in the biz world, etc...) There are occurrences on the Macro level (i.e. the big picture) that you aren't aware of.
My point is simply that you totally lay off in this area - no matter how much his shtoch hurts. We all need to remain above. And I know you could do it - because I know that you've got some good kids going to some good schools... Be shtark and be gebentched!

12:54 AM  
Anonymous arbeit said...

i remain silent!!!!!
Thank you for your kind words!!!
you sound like a sincere and learned person-I would love to meet you.

8:24 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Beis Feiga?! Muahahahaha! It's barely more than a day school anymore.

For the record, I din't address your choice of boys schools as boys school placements are done on a boy by boy basis while all girls in a family attend the same school. The upshot? That you really only learn about a boy based upon the school while you learn about the family based upon the girls school. That said, Beis Tova is perfect for you.

9:30 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

10:12 AM  
Anonymous arbait said...

You cant make a statement like that-sorry.
The boys schools these days dont even interview with the boys but rather the parents. The schools dont see the boy till the first day of yeshiva-your last post is not valid.

10:52 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

what girls school do you say is the crem de la crem nowadays?

10:58 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I'm not sure what he thinks is the crem de la crem (who decides that anyway?) but Bais Rivkah Rochel has the most strenuous admissions.

11:13 AM  
Anonymous Struggling Lakewood taxpayer said...

call Bob Singer's office and tell him we do not want the stadium. His # is (732) 901-0702.
A bunch of people have called . Lets keep the momentum up.

1:15 PM  
Anonymous Fotheringay-Phipps said...

I think one might say about Yudel Shain what the Chazon Ish said about the Neturei Karta - it's like an alaram clock. The time comes and the clock makes noise. Afterwards the person has to decide for himself - to get up or to remain asleep. But the clock has no thinking to do - it just makes noise. But in doing so it serves a useful function.

In this particular instance, I don't see what the problem is in calculating the value based on the assesed value of the lot and the cost of building the house. Makes sense to me.

The ironic thing is that the kehilla as a whole stands to gain from the reassessment. This is because anshei shloimenu own a disproportionate percentage of the newer houses in town, which stand to gain. The problem is that within the kehilla, the people who will gain are the rich people in fancy house, and the ones who will lose are the poor struggling people who bought houses years ago.

I suspect that a lot of the machers are not affected one way or the other, since they frequently have their houses listed under the names of their mosdos. But in this particular case - as opposed to many other instances - I don't think that's an issue.

BTW, I would just ignore the school snob in this thread. JMHO.

1:31 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"The ironic thing is that the kehilla as a whole stands to gain from the reassessment. This is because anshei shloimenu own a disproportionate percentage of the newer houses in town, which stand to gain."

I don't believe anyone will gain. Yes, I know, they are selling a line about how it will even things out, but I think it's just pap they distribute to keep the natives quiet. When the dust settles, look for an increase across the board.

1:35 PM  
Anonymous Fotheringay-Phipps said...

I wouldn't be surprised if there is an increase across the board. The reason is because it is easier to get an increase in if everyone's payments are changing anyway, so that it will be harder for people to sort out one factor from the other. But the current estimate is that the new rate will be 39% of the old rate in order to break even. That means in order to pay the same amount, you would have to increase your assessment by over 250%. The newer houses have not appreciated anywhere near that much, and will certainly go down.

1:41 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

The cold facts at the end of the day is "with the new assessment you'll pay EVERY YEAR more dollars out of your pocket-but don't worry about that as the more $$$$$$$$ that the VAAD can S Q U E E Z E out of the gullibles the more brain storms they'll come up with to line the pockets of their cronies. "It's called supply and demand" you "supply" the $$$$$ and the VAAD's cronies will "demand" their share- This is first grade stuff. Wake and smell the coffee (as the price of coffee is going up).

9:02 AM  

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