Lakewood Yeshiva's mea culpa
The text of Lakewood Yeshiva's ad that will be apearing in some newspapers:
On behalf of Beth Medrash Govoha, we apologize to the Tzibbur for the Ladies Auxiliary "Home" auction book that was mailed out this past week.
Beth Medrash Govoha, with over 4,500 talmidim who are moser nefesh for Torah each day, epitomizes the very essence of ruchnios. The "Home" book clearly sent the wrong message about who we are, what we represent, and our standards.
We erred by allowing it to go out.
We thank all our yedidim who took the time to communicate with us on this important issue. We also thank the partners of House and Home, as well as the auction sponsors; their intentions to help the Yeshiva are sincerely appreciated.
We have canceled the auction and are refunding all those who already participated.
Thank you,
Rabbi Aaron Kotler
posted by Yeshiva Orthodoxy
at 12:38 PM
66 Comments:
Not as weak as I thought it would be, they didn't try to deflect the blame onto the Ladies Auixiliary as I thought they would. They actually accepted responsibility.
I'm impressed. This had to have been a difficult move. Kol Hakavod to them. (Or, if you prefer, shkoyach).
Is the Aron Kotler signature real? I thought Malkiel runs the place. Who is Aron? How is he related to Malkiel?
to quote Rav Malkiel "How dare you speak against aaron, every brick in this yeshiva is here because of him"
THE BIG QUESTION IS: DOES BMG & ARON KOTLER ASK SHAILOS BEFORE THEY PUTS OUT SOMETHING LIKE THIS OR DOES THE YESHIVA FEEL THEY ARE ABOVE IT OR KNOW IT ALL? IF THEY DO CONSULT WHAT WERE THEY TOLD? IF THEY SHOWED IT TO SOMEONE & HE SAID IT"S OK WHY ARE THEY BACKING DOWN? IS IT ONLY BECAUSE OF PR REASONS IF SO NO CREDIT TO THEM. MY FEELING IS THAT THEY DID NOT ASK & DO NOT ASK. DAAS TORAH IS FOR THE MASSES A.K. MAKES HIS OWN DECISIONS. IF SO WHAT ARE WE TO TRUST FROM BMG?
They are brothers. Aron is the CEO. He runs the Yeshiva administratively and financially.
But did they cancel the auction? It doesn't seem so
The last line of the letter says that they did.
I have to say the auction did not bother me at all. Alot of the greivances I heard against the auction could have been said against alot of auctions. I mean..where do you draw the line? A fancy 15,00 dining room set which is in every other auction is OK but BMG's was to much???
What does bother me is the stadium. Not because of the frumkeit issue (although I find it a little hypocritical since they'r gonn bar us from going) but rather because they are playing fast and loose with the "oilam's" taxes.
Yes, I know all about the ratables game but according to most UNBIASED people (a previous poster posted a link to a Rutgers University study and a state report) ratables do not work.
Rabbi Aaron Kotler
It was a mistake to have this chinise auction, but a bigger mistake to cancel it.
How did you get the letter before it was sent out???
How do you have access to the letter, before we got it in the mail??
Not AK OK, but AK spends time on this blog. I suppose not at home or they would expell his kids from the local Mosdos?? Here here here.
I'm impressed they cancelled it.
Is this true?
Where's the original letter?
Like I said on orthomom's blog, hopefully those who entered the auction will be mentschen and tell the Yeshiva to keep their DONATION.
Like I said on orthomom's blog, hopefully those who entered the auction will be mentschen and tell the Yeshiva to keep their DONATION.
There may be Halachic issues too with accepting back money that one designated as Tzedaka.
Unfortunately, this was all blown out of proportion. It certainly is true that "Home" was an eye opener, however is was not sent out to be a sefer Musar on how to live your life - it was a fund raiser! Donate a hundred dollars and maybe win a prize! Had it not been blown out of proportion the Yeshiva would have made some needed money and maybe even abandoned this type of venture in the future. People are way to insecure about who and what they are and believe in, therefore they constantly have to be in attack mode against something they think threatens their essence. "Home" didn't threaten anyone - those who can afford will buy kitchens, those that wish to live more modest lifestyles will... and guess what there is room for everyone of us in Klal Yisroel.
Personally, no big deal.
Who cares if a catalogue featured some ostentatious homes?!
Blown out of Proportion.
Aaron, for once I feel for you.
I'm with the last two commenters, all the way. Nudniks like the ones running this blog made a big deal out of nothing.
"What does bother me is the stadium. Not because of the frumkeit issue (although I find it a little hypocritical since they'r gonn bar us from going) but rather because they are playing fast and loose with the "oilam's" taxes."
Hear, hear!
I don't see how anyone can say it was blown out of proportion. It's not "just" a fundraiser, and of course it's not a mussur sefer. But it's the yeshiva sending out something that completely contradicts the lifestyle that they should be supporting. $7500 worht of mouldings for the home? Is that what's missing from Yeshiva apts.? It's insanity.
I think it's pathetic that the yeshiva had to waste all that money (for the brochure and the publicity, not to mention the man-hours wasted) b/c of a few nudniks whose holy feelings were violated.
Mamon hekdesh is evidently nothing by you guys.
"$7500 worht of mouldings for the home? Is that what's missing from Yeshiva apts.? It's insanity."
That's about what it would cost to put moldings throughout a medium-large house. I'm not saying moldings are a necessity, but they're certainly not insanity.
Mamon hekdesh is evidently nothing by you guys.
Oh please, do me a favor. Anyone who was not offended by this is either wealthy, has a rich shver supporting them or is out of Yeshiva too long. You will not get it if you were never moser nefesh to learn in Yeshiva.
Dear Friend,
You have not explained why this is not been blown out of proportion ? Also why is this not just a fundraiser? You admit that it is not a sefer to teach us how to live yet you cannot admist that it was may a mistake -Can't you cut a little slack to they people involved? Do you know what it means to have to bring the huge budget the BMG has in every single month? I know about five years ago their budget was $10,0000,0000.00 a year , now it is certainly much more - that means raising Thirty Thousand dollars a day!!
Nowhere was is stated that these $7500 moldings are missing from your life.. nor did it encourage anyone to forsake their mesiras nefesh. This was merely a chance to win them if you should so desire and give some money to the Yeshiva.
One small slight insult to a friend or spouse is a much greater aveira than "Home". Yes maybe a mistake but the whole controversey is unwarranted.
The below was taken from another blog-its well written and a good chazara cant hurt....(I censored some nivul peh)
I cannot quote verbatim, but basically the woman who wrote it (I guess from the ladies auxillary..) carries on about how the home is such an important place, it is where the mother nurtures the family and provides sustanance and shelter for hubby and children so that her little tzaddikle in Kollel can learn b'hasmada, u'beyishuv haddas.
I found it incredibly amusing to see how this woman tried to make the connection between learning Torah L'shma and the need for all of the various home upgrades found within this pamphlet.....and we are talking here about kitchens, windows, dining room and living room sets that you wouldn't even find in the homes of the richest balabbatim that are so loathed by some of these yeshivaleit!
The sheer hypocrisy of this was so incredible to me that I had to laugh (better than crying....)
Learning Torah L'sham and the lifelong career of making "Torasoh U'mnasoh has been associated throught the millenia with a simple lifestyle. These people who were rich in spirituality, usually (by definition) lacked but the barest neccesities, and they were happy. They lived "bedachkus hanefesh" yet they were sameach bechelkam; they had the torah!
These were/are people who didn't/don't chase after all of the excess and frivolities that exist in this world.
They understood that to pursue this kind of career will often mean giving up on certain "amenities" and a luxurious lifestyle. This was a clear decision that was made.....and no, they did not rely on the shver, or family to provide them with luxuries.
Not so today. It would appear from this auction booklet that the new breed of yeshivaleit and their spouses would like to have their cake and eat it too.
Sit in the comfort of the ..Kollel, while living in a mansion with a $50,000 kitchen that you either won or someone else paid for (same difference..), and drive a mercedes..(it's not really a German car since the "din Nazi wasn't yet chal on the oilam when the cars were nivrah. So veebalt it still had a din of davar sheloi ba leoilam, it's ke'eiloo it was never German in the first palce. Since the din doesn't work L'mafreiah...")
Me thinks this is either a case of Niskatnu Hadoirois (and a bit of "Chutzpah Yazgeh"), OR
THESE ARE NOT TRUE B'NAI TORAH AND B'NAI ALIYAH (BOTH HUSBANDS AND THEIR WIFES WHO WOULD ACTUALLY SUBSCRIBE TO THE MESSAGE IN THIS BOOKLET)AND ARE UNDESERVING OF BEING SUPPORTED WITHIN THE FRAMEWORK OF A KOLLEL LIFESTYLE.
"ADAM ROTZEH KAV SHELOH M'TISHA KAVIM SHEL CHAVEROH"....
I SAY THESE people OUT TO GET A JOB AND THEN MAYBE THEY'LL APPRECIATE THEIR $50.000 DOLLAR KITCHEN MORE THAN JUST MOOCHING IT ANY WAY THEY CAN.....
NUFF SAID...
Why is nobody addressing the real issue -- that House and Home approached BMG folks and proposed this "fundraiser", which is really an ad campaign, to get to BMG's mailing list. I'm sure that the BMG tutzachs who approved the "fundraiser" were promised or recieved kickbacks for their own homes as well... I mean, s'past nit for the askanim not to have nice homes to return to after a full day of askonus...
A mosad who's leaders signed on to the wedding takkanos to come out with a booklet like this is beyond hypocritical. The wedding issues are symptoms of a problem, not the heart of the matter. The real problem is people who strive to hard to live the lifestyle that is being promoted in the 'HOME' auction.
"NUFF SAID..."
That was the first and only intelligent remark in your entire idiotic diatribe.
Although I feel badly about the wasted mamon hekdesh, and I don't see what the big fuss is about, in a way I feel the Roshei Yeshiva deserved this tumul. After all, it's just another manifestation of the kanous that they so encourage and never do anything to fight, only this time they were the targets. How many times have they been spineless in the face of the kanoim; now they were bitten themselves. Gotta be careful when you're riding the tiger ...
"just why do YOU think the the BMG Yeshiva apologized?"
B/c they can't handle PRESSURE.
As they've demonstrated so many, many times.
"Learning Torah L'sham and the lifelong career of making "Torasoh U'mnasoh has been associated throught the millenia with a simple lifestyle. These people who were rich in spirituality, usually (by definition) lacked but the barest neccesities, and they were happy. They lived "bedachkus hanefesh"
You have a car? A nice suit? What kind of sheitel does your wife wear? Do your kids have bikes? Do you live in a house? Do you own the house? Do you have chicken or meat on your table during the week? Do you drink soda?
I'll bet I know how you and 99% of the yungerleit would have to answer all those questions, so spare me your "torah b'dachkus" b.s. You ain't livin it, and neither is almost anyone in town. It's all matter of degree.
Anon 2:12,
That was describing how it USED to be-Not how it IS.
We all unfortunately know thats not the case in this generation of kolel goers. At least not for the mainstream!
Just as an addendum to my previous post..(taken from another blog)
I couldn't help but reflect on how ironic it is that the pope in his holiday message spoke about the over-commercialization of their religion and appealed to his faithful not to succumb to rampant excess, frivolity, and technology that exists in today's society.
Here you have a mamzer ben mamzer, meshukatz, preaching to his mindless clods on the very important issues that our "precious" "yungerleit" and their "nashim tzidkonios" wives over at "Lakewood eer hakodesh" have shown a complete disregard for...
...and we are to believe that these are the jewels of our collective crown???
Give me a friggen break!
I'm not going to pretend to lump the whole lot of Lakewood into this fiasco otherwise known as their "home auction".
However, the mere fact that this farce was given the light of day...(and you could bet your ****** that this idea was given haskamos up the wazzoo by every Rav in Lakewood before ultimately being recalled due to pressure by by some of the move$s and $hakers...) is indicative of the epidemic that has taken root in our highest institutions.
Is this the "chachmas nashim bansa baisa of our women?? My..how their husbands have suceeded in corroding their minds and hearts....
Is this issue going to be addressed by the irrelevant Agudas Yisroel at the next convention?
Of course not!
Their going to focus on some thing like "how to deal with women in the workplace", or like that.
No different than the publication known as the Jewish Observer whose writers and editors are still battling the maskilim of yesteryear.
I am sick from this....
-You have a car?
Yes - an '89
-A nice suit?
Yes - I wear it on Shabbos. My weekday suits are my two former Shabbos suits which became no longer Shabbosdik. My nicest suit cost $129.
-What kind of sheitel does your wife wear?
Since there is a mitzvah to be m'kabed ishto yoiser m'gufo (and the ikkar kibud is levushim), my wife got a new sheitel after 9 years of marrige. I'm not sure of the brand, but she spent $800 and it was also her simchas yom tov for Pesach that year.
-Do your kids have bikes?
No.
-Do you live in a house?
No.
-Do you own the house?
N/A - see above.
-Do you have chicken or meat on your table during the week?
Meat, almost never. Meat we pretty mcuh only have in the cholent or on Yom Tov (unless you call hot dogs meat). On rare ocassion, we'll have something made from gound meat. Chicken I get during the week - leftovers from Shabbos.
-Do you drink soda?
Only on Shabbos.
Any more questions wise guy?
Torah B'dachkus dosent mean you have to be poor as the dickens.In todays times the mere fact that a yungerman devotes his life to torah and learns in Yeshiva thats considered torah B'dachkus,BTW what was poor 50 years ago b"H today we live in a world were we can afford basic necesaties.
Avreich- I LOVE YOU!!!! WE NEED MORE LIKE YOU!!! THIS IS WHAT REB AHRON WANTED FOR LAKEWOOD!!GO SHTAIG!!!
BTW-I am a farbissen baal habos-but i still love a sincere kolel yungerman.
Maran,
Those are the people I stand up for!!!!!!!!
I give them credit for living like that and giving it up for the sake of toirah leshaim shomayim. Those are the people we need more of and i wish the entire bmg was like.
We are talking about the "other sug kolel yungerman"
The one which i dont need to describe here....
Anonymous said...
to quote Rav Malkiel "How dare you speak against aaron, every brick in this yeshiva is here because of him"
Some brick building! I guess all the incompetence is because of him as well.The yeshiva is the same "far schleped" operation expect in Brokes Brothers suits
"I am sick from this.... "
You are sick, period.
"Any more questions wise guy?"
Just one. How does it happen that a guy without two cents to rub together is sitting by a computer with an internet connection all day? I assume you're not spending your day at the public library.
All day? The last I checked, it was bein hasederim. I'm watching our children until it's time to take them to the afternoon sitter.
AS far as not having "two cents to rub together", we've what we need, baruch Hashem - we simpy choose not to chase after every comfort and extravegance. The internet connection is paid off by my wife's work.
Hey "Avreich" above,
Here is my first and last (bli neder) posting on this joke of a blog. Hope your thrilled that the comments are reserved for you.
I'm the guy whose quotes were taken off another blog and pasted on this thread. I got the heads up and came to check out this blog..
I used to be in Kollel myself for more than awhile. Absolute best years of my life...
It would never have occured to me to surf the internet, much less post to a blog smack in middle of a learning day..the way you have here.
My concern was shteiging in learning and making the most out of my time in Kollel (which I knew wouldn't last forever).
I won't pretend to know you and I appreciate your laundry list of your "don't have's" presumably because you sit and learn all day.
If I accept that as fact, then what in the world are you doing:
a. at a computer?
b. at a computer in middle of seder?
c. Being misasek altogether on the internet; much less on this blog of seemingly dubious distinction?
d. where else do you surf in cyberspace, "kollel man" ("avreich").
e. "Lapesach chatos rovetz" does your wife (the one being moser nefesh for your "learning" with the $129 shaitel 9 years after the wedding...) know about these pursuits of yours?
Me thinks you'd be better off in the work force. Try to be honest with yourself for a change, see how much time you spend in cyberspace and G-d knows where else and ask yourself whether you are being mekayeim ratzon hashem through word and deed.
I'm outta here.. (bli neder) this blog is not for me...
Chazak V'ematz, and I promise I bear you no ill will.
I'm certainly no saint and I could use some mussar myself.
...and yes... I am a baal habbus today who is (bli neder) Koveiah eetim L'torah.
If this disqualifies me from talking, then you have proved my point!!
DITTO,
I had the same comment as the last one posted.
I wil give him the benefit of the doubt and say that his shver bought him the laptom for his Torah Writings and Cheedushim.
And his shver gave him a life time supply to AOL to do further RESEARCH in old Jewish Archive, Libraries.
Or maybe he sold his computer to the same GOY that buys his Chametz, so its really not his.
Why don't they use the Devils new 'HOME' STADIUM as a theme - I can't imagine they would ever back out of that one!
"AS far as not having "two cents to rub together", we've what we need, baruch Hashem - we simpy choose not to chase after every comfort and extravegance."
You mean you can afford all these things, but have decided that you don't need them? Well, then you're not learning b'dachkus, so quit carrying on.
"I don't get it, and I'm not sure if I ever will."
Well, I'm sure you never will.
"Let us learn from Chanukah that we reject the materialistic excesses of the yevanim - the stadiums, the banquets, the palaces."
The computers, the internet connections ...
Oh, wait, you're using a computer and the internet. Scratch those last two.
Where's my post saying that this is the roshei yeshiva deserve to be the targets of the kanoim since they give in them at every opportunity? Why'd you censor it? It be the truth, man.
"You mean you can afford all these things, but have decided that you don't need them? Well, then you're not learning b'dachkus, so quit carrying on."
No, I mean that you and I obviously have very different understandings of what one "needs". We have what we need, baruch Hashem.
That's right, we have a different idea of "needs." Problem is that I'm perfectly happy to let you live with your idea, but you are foaming at the mouth at the idea of a yungerman who has a different view.
Well, thanks for posting my comment about the missing comment. To put it more clearly: The yeshiva is harvesting what it itself has sown. They consistently bend the knee before every nudnik kanoi who has a bee in his bonnet; well, now the kanous is aimed at them. If you encourage these guys, the next thing you know they're at your own throat.
rabosai, this is all taking away from Chanukah
What do you mean? Zman hadlakah is not for another hour.
Intersting that the anon expects the avreich to live differently than he himself lives (eschewing the internet). Are there seperate Torahs for one whose toraso umnaso? And why do you jump to conclusions about what he may be viewing when you're also posting on a website of "dubious nature"?
I might also remind you that koveiah itim l'torah doesn't mean that the rest of the time you're free of any obligation to learn, rather it'a an admonishment to establish preiods of time for learning which are absolutely involable. Certainly, learning is incumbant upon you at all times. Now, you could, of course, argue that you need a bit of a break now and again, but then you couldn't indict the avreich for some mindless surfing during intersession which he babysits his kids...
As a substitute to the now discarded/discorded theme the organizers may want to use a main idea along the lines of Sports/Hockey/Baseball for the auction.
..But I would still advise that them to ask true Daas Torah (i.e. free of negius) about the Sports/Hockey/Stadium this time.
So your yeshiva decided to have a fundraiser, and all you kanoyim had to go nuts because if you didn't go nuts about something you wouldn't be happy in life. Get a life, go to the bais midrash, and worry about yourselves rather than giving your yeshiva grief. For once you have me feeling sorry for the Lakewood administration. They can do no right in your eyes.
Mr. Avreich,
Very nice of your wife to have a Simchas Yom Tov for $800.00.
Wouldn't it have been nicer to take the $800.00 and buy some used bikes for the kids and have them eat a shtickel fleish instead of carcinogenic hot dogs and buy yourself another suit? I guess it's more important to impress the neighbours and friends.
Wouldn't it have been nicer to take the $800.00 and buy some used bikes for the kids and have them eat a shtickel fleish instead of carcinogenic hot dogs and buy yourself another suit? I guess it's more important to impress the neighbours and friends.
My gosh, that may be the most ignorant statement I have read this week. She's wearing a new shaitel to impress people? How can you possibly make such an assumption? And without knowing this man or his children you already decided where it's more important for his few dollars to go, when his wife had not gotten a new sheitel for nine years. Your chutzpah knows no bounds.
My chutzpah?
What would you say if he went out a bought a suit for $800.00, while his kids are munching on hot dogs?
A shaitel doesn't have to cost $800.00. It just depends what your priorities are.
By the way can't you pick a user name?
It also depends upon where she has to wear it (my wife works in a non-jewish office with the public, for instance; she couldn't get by with a $400 sheitel). It's also a question of buying a nicer sheitel less frequently or replacing the inferior sheitel often. I'm sure Baalbatish is also amongst the first to criticize the yeshivishe women that walk around with what looks like road kill on their head, too.
Besides, what's $800 in the greater scheme of things? Let's say she got a $400 sheitel instead and somehow managed to get it to last for 9 years. How much has she saved? My math tells me about $0.85 a week. Maybe with that massive savings, they could afford to have the all beef hot dogs every fifth week instead of the turkey franks. You're right, their priorities are completely out of whack...
I don't get it -- is it a yarog v'al yavor not to have bikes for your kids? My kids don't have bikes, either, and I work for a living.
My chutzpah?
What would you say if he went out a bought a suit for $800.00, while his kids are munching on hot dogs? A shaitel doesn't have to cost $800.00. It just depends what your priorities are.
If he did it once every nine years, it wouldn't be so terrible. Besides, you can look much better in a $200 suit than you can in a $200 sheitel. Bad comparison.
By the way can't you pick a user name?
I should. I just didn't get around to it yet.
guys if an outsider looks at this conversation he'll think you're all crazy, and he'd be right.
??????????????????????????????
"my wife works in a non-jewish office with the public, for instance; she couldn't get by with a $400 sheitel."
What does this mean? She has to look like she is a single girl?
"Besides, what's $800 in the greater scheme of things? "
In the greater scheme of things. $800.00 is not much but as he has the money now so he could put it to better use than buying artificially inflated human hair and providing for his family items that they are lacking.
Mr. Avereich was shtoltz that his kids don't have bikes and they don't eat quality meats. He feels they are lacking these items. The kids are being moiser nefesh for Torah. He could remedy this when he has $800.00.
By the way, my wife pays a lot less than $800.00 and even less than $400.00 and the ladies with the $3,000.00 shaitlech come over to compliment her and they want to know where she got her "custom". When she notifys them, they walk away without saying a word.
"I'm sure Baalbatish is also amongst the first to criticize the yeshivishe women that walk around with what looks like road kill on their head, too."
Actually it's impressive, woman who are not ashamed to walk around with road kill on their heads, they are really being moiser nefesh for Torah
So clue us in, Baalbatish, where des your wife ge sheitlach for <$400 that don't look like "road kill"?
Also - "He feels they are lacking these items" - I didn't get that impression at all. I think you're reading a lot into his comments.
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