Thursday, December 08, 2005

Rabbonim meeting

Last nights important "shidduch crisis" meeting in the house of Reb Shmuel Berenbaum shlita, was attended by a who's who of rabbonim, from Rabbi Feldman of Ner Yisroel to Rabbi Schecter of Chaim Berlin and everyone else.

Except Reb Meir Stern and Reb Elya Chaim Swerdlof.

The central topic discussed and explored was how to keep boys staying in America, and have them marry younger.

There was a heated exchange between two very concerned gedolim.

The fierce, independent Reb Chaim Epstein challenged the Noviminsker Rebbe's opinion that bochurim should skip Israel to marry younger. "Why deprive boys who shteig in Isreal?", he passionately asked.

The Noviminsker, whose concern for each and every yid is legendary, responded: "There's an ais tzorah(a time of hardship)!".

Reb Chaim quickly retorted, "For an ais tzorah you take away boys learning?!"

Reb Chaim was not forced to provide the name of the boy who shteiged in Israel. (Just a joke)

The head of Lakewood seminary Rabbi Yanofsky made an interesting observation: In Brooklyn, the chassidish boys go to chassidish yeshivas and marry chassidish girls; on the other hand many chassidish girls go to litvish bais yackovs and many of them prefer litvish boys.

At the meeting, which lasted from 4pm to 7pm, it was decided that they're going to form a shidduch vaad and explore further.

posted by Yeshiva Orthodoxy
at 5:25 PM

58 Comments:

Anonymous Anonymous said...

ridiculous! if boys are getting married at 21 how much earlier can they start shidduchim?

12:58 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

What was the point of Rabbi Yanofsky's interesting observation? That the chassidishe girls are causing the crisis by marrying litvishe boys? I don't think so. How many such shidduchim do you know of?

1:37 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"Except Reb Meir Stern and Reb Elya Chaim Swerdlof."

Why didn't they participate ? Were they not invited ? Did they decline/refuse to come because they don't hold of the idea ? Did they hold it was bittul Tayreh ? Did they have other commitments?

2:07 PM  
Blogger Y.W. Editor said...

A complete list of all the Rabonim in attendance will be posted later.

2:18 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

not believeable this is one big joke the world is going down the tubes if rabbis think they have a global handle on the yeshiva world attitude that they understand what goes in to where a boy goes to yeshiva in israel and when they will marry the more they get together like this the more irrelevant they will become if any rabbi will make a change in the seder of institutions that a boy goes to the first step is to realize where the seder ends which is in lakewood lakewood is a hefkervelt where the rosh yeshivas live in dreamland and i can go on and on and now you tell me that they want to chang e the rules because of a percieved shidduchcrisis??????????????????????/

2:28 PM  
Anonymous Lakewood Talmid said...

flatbishyid ....I am mocheh for the kavod of the lakwood roshei yeshiva they have no night or day they are moser nefesh for klal yisroel and for torah.For one to bash them for not redding him a schidduch is ridiculous.Thats not their job the Yeshiva has plenty of schadchanim.and belive me they happened to have redd plenty of sciduchim for bochrim.I think you are to ask them for mechila.

2:47 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

its always easy to criticize until YOU have a better solution. At least the Rabonim are taking interest.

In my opinion they should stop the girls from going to "camp" Eretz Yisroel

2:49 PM  
Blogger Tzemach Atlas said...

Lakewood is a nepotistic business that managed to feed several generations of select families. They don’t have to look for shidduchim, jobs, etc. Heck they don’t even need the internet. Moser Nefesh? Pllleeeease...

2:58 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Since when don't they pay the Kollel, FlatbushYid?

3:03 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

the biggest tragedy in klal yisroel in america is that a yeshiva in lakewood has manged to gain a monopoly in learning for people 21 and older and the people who run it are only concerned with money. no concern for the greater american community no concern for it's effect on other yeshivos

3:14 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Ahhh, now suddenly it's a few years ago... *yawn* You could have at least found a canard that's current.

As for the _amount of the check_, in R' Aharon's day there were no more than 50 talmidim, and most left kollel after a year or two tops. Further, it seems that around 1500 families disagree with you, considering they manage to live on the kollel stipend. If, on the other hand, you'd advance the argument that the stipend should be raised such that a family need no other means of support, then I agree with you fully. Of course, the money has to come from somewhere -- chan I send you an envelope?

3:16 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

don't take in more than you can handle let another yeshiva open up to support what they can handle and when i say more then you can handle i mean more then monetarily

3:19 PM  
Blogger Fascinated said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

3:22 PM  
Anonymous flatbshyid said...

Which yungerman from those 1500 lives off the kolel money? His father, father in law, wife, mother in law, all work to support him. D'ont misunderstand me I am for kolel just not for lakewood. Why do their families receive double checks are they better then my family. The whole administration sticks there. They care zero about anyone. I was there klal yisroel would be better off if the whole place just closed up.

3:25 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

flatbshyid - you sound like you are a farbissiner ex lakeweder with no hakoras hatov.

Get a life!

3:26 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Do you think the money magically lands on the doorstep when you put out a shingle which says "Yeshiva"?! I fail to see what :allowing: another yeshive to open would serve (sae pacifying those who drank too much of the Mir koolaid). Lakewood, if anything else, is a fundraising machine. The economies of scale actually benefit larger yeshivas.

What ever happened to "chas al momon shel Yisrael"?

3:26 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Sounds like you didn't have the mesiras nefesh to cut it, Flatbush.

I know I'm not alone when I say that while my wife works, we recieve no other support aside ffrom the kollel stipend. If you can get by without the leased Camry, the $3500 sheitel and $350 suits, you can make it without bankrupting your parents.

3:31 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

you run yeshivas like a mass production factory but if you want to see what happens to a yeshiva that gets to big for providing a yeshiva environment go to lakewood.
besides they have gotten so big and unaccountable noone is saving money unless you approve of double kollel checks and a maintenance staff the size of a small army

3:31 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

you are even more pathetic than I thought.

3:31 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I wonder where you are going to send your boys when they reach shidduch age (if you have any)?

3:32 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Now the size of the maintenance staff is an issue?! Um, hello. That's the economy of scale -- put the same 4400 talmidim spread accross three institutions and you'd need twice the staff.

Asw for your question whether "their families" are somehow better than yours? You're providing an answer via your comments here. If you received as much as 16 cents to support your learning in Lakewood, it was too much, becuase it obviously had little effect upon you.

3:35 PM  
Blogger Tzemach Atlas said...

read this on Nepotims
http://www.mentalblog.com/2005/04/binyan-adei-ad-or-problem-of-nepotism.html

3:36 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

we have halachah that dictates "bnoi kodem lichol odom".

3:40 PM  
Anonymous SephardiLady said...

I know, for one, that when my boys are of shidduch age that they will be ready to support a family. I don't know what age they will be. But, chances are they won't be 18 years old either.

3:41 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Because everyone knows "asias parnassa keneged kol hatorah kulo", right SephardiLady?

3:44 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"considering they manage to live on the kollel stipend."

That's ridiculous. No one lives on the kollel stipend.

"I know I'm not alone when I say that while my wife works, we recieve no other support aside ffrom the kollel stipend."

Then your wife evidently has a very decent job (and perhaps you're on govt. programs too?). But if you'd subtract the kollel stipend from your budget, you'd still be able to get by. The 320 a month is not what makes it possible for anyone.

Original Anonymous

4:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Rav aaron schechter was in chaim berlin at 6:45 what time was the meeting

4:01 PM  
Blogger Y.W. Editor said...

3:30 until 6:40

4:27 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I guarantee subtracting the $4160 stipend from the kollel would make or break for me and many of my peers.

As for the Pell Grant issue, I have to responses. First, the yeshiva doesn't keep the Pell Grant for yungerleit, only the state tuition grant - the Pell Grant is refunded to the student. Second, it's amazing to me how the people that complain about not receiving a 100% refund on their financial aid from the yeshiva have no issues whatsoever with paying 100% of their financial aid to the college of their choice when they flip their BA in Talmudic Studies for a JD or MBA.

I'd have no problem with the stira, of course, if they actually did something to alleviate the financial burden of the yeshiva once they were on the career path, but of course, it never seems to work out that way...

4:32 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"Second, it's amazing to me how the people that complain about not receiving a 100% refund on their financial aid from the yeshiva have no issues whatsoever with paying 100% of their financial aid to the college of their choice when they flip their BA in Talmudic Studies for a JD or MBA."

That's ridiculous. Universities don't claim to be running a kollel; BMG does, but isn't really, since they don't provide even close to a stipend one can live on. To withhold the tuition grant on top of that is chazzarish; let them use that to supplement the stipend they're not paying.

4:45 PM  
Anonymous legal expert said...

ther are some interesting LEGAL
issues being raised her.
are u'all willing to testify or do you'se want suppenas?

5:59 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

remember this a public forum!!!!!!

6:01 PM  
Blogger Tzemach Atlas said...

yes it is a publc forum and all of you are "anonymous". Ever heard of Glastnost?

6:39 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"The yeshiva baruch hashem looks like its finances are doing quite ok"

Really? And you base this one what, exactly?

"Do some rosh yeshivas even know what mesiros nefesh is"

Hve you seen the standard by which the RY live? Obviously not r you wouldn't be showing yourinorance like this.

7:31 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

You sound like a washout that begrudges that he is working instead of learning, though it sounds as though the NY State Lottery couldn't make you into a yungerman.

7:31 PM  
Anonymous SephardiLady said...

To all the anonymous posters:

Pick a name. It is impossible to keep you straight.

7:53 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"Do some rosh yeshivas even know what mesiros nefesh is"

Mesiros nefeshis traveling around the world and not having time to prepare a normal shiur.

A house paid by yeshiva, the best health ins. covered by yeshiva, taxes paid by yeshiva, +$100,000 a year, thats a side issuse nothing to do with mesiros nefesh.

7:58 PM  
Blogger Tzemach Atlas said...

People who still wonder why Lakewood Rabbonim what to ban Internet can take a loot at this thread. This is want they are afraid of. The king is naked!

8:05 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

BMG is a non-profut, as such their tax returns are freely avalaible. I assure that none of the RY make anything _close_ to 100K and that _includes_ housing and insurance.

8:11 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Public? ok give us a link

8:30 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

http://www.guidestar.org/

Now go and learn.

9:09 PM  
Anonymous stop schnooring said...

The truth is that this Entitlement thing is ridiculous the yehiva does not have to pay you a penny.If you choose to be in kollel and learn than there are plenty of options you can move out of town or go to some community kollel.if torah is that impotrant to you money will never be an obstacle.It is known from R' Schach zt'l that if a yeshiva is in financial trouble it must pay its workers first only then could they pay rebbeim and then kollel.

9:47 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"Last I checked, BMG was a fully accredited university and awarded undergraduate degrees which allowed its students to bypass secular undergraduate degrees when moving on to graduate school. That should come free?"

Oh, give me a break. That's too ridiculous to even bother addressing.

"As for your concept of kollel - when has there ever existed a kollel where the yungerman could sit and learn, living entirely off of the kollel stipend? Lo haya v'lo nivra."

Kein haya, v'kein nivra. When R' Aharon instituted the $40-per-week stipend, his cheshbon was that this was what a melamed earned. It was enough to live on b'docheik. I know this from people who were there at the time.

Besides, even if they cannot provide a full stipend, they should certainly be trying to do better than this. (Especially l'shitaschah, that BMG is just like a university. Ever check what the grad students in major universities receive? A lot more than 4,500 a year, not to mention free housing and more in many schools.)

10:04 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

That includes my pell grants, all I want is my pell grants (and maybe my house under a mosads name) Do you think I can count this as massar?

10:05 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Of cousre bmg is like a university , just ask aaron kotler (I'm sorry its now reb aaron kotler) that is how he justifys the high tuition, he says just like harvard. His grandfather must be real proud.
What happend to the days where yeshivas took in on a basis of merit, not money?
No money don't bother taking a bechina and if you could scrape together the $13,000 for grands loans and who knows what else.
AND you wont see a penny of it, not for +6 years.

10:14 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Re: R' Aharon's Cheshbon

Name one person who learned in R' Aharon's Kollel longer than 4 years after marriage. If you're so well connected, you'll be able to name one, but that's it, because there was only one. Your bit about the $40/week being any more of a living wage than the current stipend is utter nonsense. Mesiras nefesh is a key ingredient in the success of a kollel yungerman. Mistapek b'muat isn't simply a way to get by, it's in many ways key to his kinyan Torah.

AS was said earlier - there are many guys who could win the lottery and not have what it takes to sit and learn. They're only qualified to hock. The yeshiva has inclded a place for you, though -- it's called the coffee room. Enjoy it.

10:25 PM  
Anonymous Respectful Cynic said...

Anonymous said...
Sounds like you didn't have the mesiras nefesh to cut it, Flatbush.

I know I'm not alone when I say that while my wife works, we recieve no other support aside ffrom the kollel stipend. If you can get by without the leased Camry, the $3500 sheitel and $350 suits, you can make it without bankrupting your parents.

3:31 PM

How are all these posts written from lakewood when there is no internet in lakewood!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

10:28 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"AS was said earlier - there are many guys who could win the lottery and not have what it takes to sit and learn. They're only qualified to hock. The yeshiva has inclded a place for you, though -- it's called the coffee room."

I guess just as it is some peoples nisayon to learn without money, it is other peoples nisayon is to work even with the money.

10:37 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

guys face it. it doesn't take much to learn in kollel these days. in fact under current conditions you'd have to be an idiot to work

1:24 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"Your bit about the $40/week being any more of a living wage than the current stipend is utter nonsense."

Not at all. It's a fact.

"Mesiras nefesh is a key ingredient in the success of a kollel yungerman. Mistapek b'muat isn't simply a way to get by, it's in many ways key to his kinyan Torah."

I know lots of solid, chashuve yungerleit who are not mistapek b'muat. But it's not relevant, b/c the present stipend is not enough to be mistapek even b'muat.

1:54 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I'd be surprised if any who can fairly be termed "solid, chashuve yungerleit" would even keep your aquaintance.

10:02 AM  
Anonymous legal expert said...

to:"unteren tish."
to:Tzemach Atlas
you are not prepared to
to open your finances
to the public.
someone might.
your ip add. is all over the place.

12:04 PM  
Blogger Yeshiva Orthodoxy said...

Please keep your comments civil

12:51 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

what a pile of fundamentalist crap!
Shidduch crises? If you want boys to get married, I have a wonderful idea. (let them meet girls)

10:16 PM  
Anonymous SephardiLady said...

Anon about has a point. It is near impossible to get two people out on a date today. Before they will even speak or meet, each party need to match every requirement on their list. A girl only wants to marry a learner, don't dare present that wonderful young guy you know who not only is making a great living, but got his smicha. A boy wants a girl who is no more than 5"4', don't dare present a girl who is 5'6" even if he is still taller than her.

And, ladies and gents, perfectly compatible people shut people out of their lives because they don't meet an exact portfolio.

8:57 PM  
Blogger Frum Singles said...

I have a great Shidduch for you!


This happens to me all the time. Someone will come over to me and "red" me "great" "attractive" girl etc. I think you get the drift. When I ask if (s)he has seen the girl (or a picture of her) the inevitible response is no.

Now frankly, this is arguably chutzpa and at a minimum a total lack of consideration. Basically, what I am being asked is to gamble my emotions, energy, time (and some money) so that this person may be a "winner" and be able to say that (s)he made a shiduch (and then get a brokerage fee a/k/a "shadchanuus") to boot.

If you you don't know how to cook, you don't belong in the kitchen. If you're not a doctor, you shouldn't have a medical office. If you're not a lawyer, you shouldn't hang out a shingle. AND IF YOU ARE NOT A SHADCHAN, DON"T ACT AS ONE !!!!

10:04 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

That's an interesting perspective, Frum Single. Most of the frum singles that I know (and alas it is quite a few), feel just the opposite. They are tired of dealing with professional shadchanim suggesting the same names over and over and wish that more regular people would get involved. They feel that regular people take a more personal interest than the professional shadchan and are more likely to "uncover" someone that might not otherwise be "on the radar".

If I may offer a bit of advise -- these suggestions shouldn't cost you anything if you are doing your research properly ("vetting"). Under no circumstances should you take a would be shadchan's suggestion and run with it without doing your own research first. It's a lot of effort, but the emotional and financial investments are minimal and you won't find yourself on so many dates that just aren't realistic. It's better for everyone.

9:25 AM  
Anonymous TACHLIS said...

WAS RABBI K AT THE MEETING?

2:37 PM  

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